Rs. 2500 Donation For Leh..By Brig KS Grewal

From: KIrpal Singh Grewal [mailto:ksgrewal_pkl@yahoo.co.in]
Sent: 15 August 2010 21:56
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Subject:

Dear Brigadier,

I have despatched a PNB cheque for Rs. 2500 today for Leh Relief.

Regards
Brig Kirpal Singh Grewal (Retd)
#1065, Sector 2
Panchkula, Haryana - 134112
India

Tel +91172 2583997, 9646046071

Rs. 1000 Donation for Leh by Col Kulbir

From: colkulbir [mailto:colkulbir@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 22:10
To: Satbir Singh
Cc: Kamboj CS; CK Sharma
Subject: Donation for Leh Disaster

Date:Monday, August 16, 2010


Dear Gen Satbir,
1. I am depositing HDFC cheque No.057732, for a sum of Rs.1000.00 (One Thousand Only) in the HDFC Branch at Manimajra, Chandigarh, for direct electronic transfer into Indian Ex Servicemen Movement Account No. 06162000001330, HDFC Bank Ltd, Palam Vihar Branch, SCO 87, Sector 22, Gurgaon – 1222001, Nine Digit MICR Code 110240109, IFSC/NEFT Code No. HDFC0000616, as advised in your mail.
2. Kindly arrange to send the 80(g) receipt at the address in the letter head.
3. I have a very deep relationship and emotional attachment with Ladakh and its people. It is a mere token of affection.


With Best Wishes for your on going missions.
Yours asever

(Col Kulbir)

Rs. 2000 Donation for Leh by Cmde Anil K Dhir

From: Anil Dhir [mailto:dhiranil@hotmail.com]
Sent: 14 August 2010 01:53
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Subject: LEH RELIEF

Hv for'd a cheque of Rs. 2000 drawn on SBI, Green Pk Extn, by courrier, vide DTDCZ18738381 of todate.

FYI

Regards

Cmde Anil K Dhir(Retd.)

Rs.2000 Donation for Leh Col D P Gupta

From: dharam gupta [mailto:prakashdpg@yahoo.com]
Sent: 14 August 2010 07:46
To: CS Kamboj
Subject: donations for leh relief

My dear Brig,
I would be despatching, cheque No 349544 dated 14 Aug 10 for Rs 2000/- drawn on HDFC bank payable at par,
on 16 Aug 10 by courier as 15 Aug is a holiday.
please request the Core Member concerned to acknowledge on receipt of the cheque.
with warm regards
Col D P Gupta(Shimla)

Rs. 5000 Donation for Leh By Veteran JK Barry

From: J.K.Barry [mailto:barryjk59@yahoo.com]
Sent: 14 August 2010 00:50
To: VSM. VETERANBrigadier C. S. Kamboj
Subject: Re: Cheque for Leh Relief.

Dear Chander,
Despatche a cheque of 5000/- today.
Love
Jugal
M: +16509967393 H: +16503242215

Rs. 5000 Donation for Leh Brig SS Jaswal

From: Brig S S Jaswal [mailto:jaswal972@yahoo.co.in]
Sent: 15 August 2010 07:37
To: SMMaj Gen Satbir Singh
Cc: VSM VeteranBrig CS Kamboj; Wg Cdr CK Sharma
Subject: Fw: DONATIONS FOR LEH WILL GET EXEMPTION UNDER 80G OF THE INCOMETAX ACT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 368/2010 - (H to Z-2) - 14 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Sir,
A cheque for Rs 5,000/- bearing No HDFC 169399 dt 14 Aug `10 is sent as my contribution for Leh Relief.

Brig SS Jaswal, Veteran Madras Sapper,
IESM, Panchkula.

Rs 5000 donation by Veteran Ajay Mehndiratta

From: Ajay Mehndiratta [mailto:ajay.mehndiratta@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 09:07
To: REPORT MY SIGNAL (CS Kamboj)
Subject: Donation,

Daer Chander I will deposit acheque of Rs 5000 in the HDFC account tomorrow Will that be alright or I have to send a cheque
With Best Wishes
Mehndi

Sad and Bad

From: Amit Bhadhuri [mailto:abhadhuri924@googlemail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 11:18
To: Brig. C S Kamboj
Cc: Maj. Gen APS Chauhan; Maj.Gen. Aditya Jaini; Maj.Gen. Gagandeep Bakshi; Major Rajinder Singh; Col. Rajendra Narain Kakar
Subject: Sad and Bad

Dear Brig. Kamboj,

It would have possibly been better not to publish the letter of B S Chooker. The name speaks for itself (Choker)?. I have serious doubt, that, the person is an Ex-Colonel because of the language.

Again, he could be a mad man and unfortunately there have always been a few in the Army too or he has a grudge against the General.

To the best of my knowledge Gen. Satbir Singh is doing a great job voluntarily and this petty incident should not be any distraction to him. Here is a real life incident I would like to mention. Only three days ago, I met with a very elderly lady in a charity gathering whose husband was a 1942 commissioned officer and one time was on SO course at Mhou living very close to great FM Sam Maneckshaw when the FM was commandant there. When asked by me she had difficulty to say anything good of the great FM. I understood and quietly moved to the next person.

This is life and though vengeful criticism hurts but we need to move on. And of course, must leave the vengeful behind.

Amit
Amit Bhadhuri
Former CISF officer
(Dear Amit,
What you have said above is generally true. I generally agree with you.
However, I believe that when someone makes some baseless very strong allegations, those must be made public to show that we are not scared of such cowardly and ungentle-manly statements. Yes, minor ‘bakwas’ from anyone – I couldn’t care less. What Colonel Chhokar said cannot be treated as minor ‘bakwas’. Gen Satbir Singh is a highly devoted ESM, who in last two years has suffered severe damage to his health. He has almost lost one eye and the second is also now affected – and people have the cheeks to doubt that fine soldier.

Most of the members are probably not aware that I get quite a few emails accusing me of so many things. I do not respond to them or I respond politely and forgive them. I am very humble and polite to all whether it is the President of India or a very lowly paid person; I treat them all with same respect and humility.

I have lot of patience. However, I have been a “No-nonsense-man” all my life. Like everyone else, my patience also has a limit; when that limit is crossed – I give it back with compound interest. That is how I have lived my entire service life and living my retired life. I have NO intentions to change this life style.

Let me also take this opportunity to say that IESM Governing Body is grateful to you for the keen interest you are taking in the activities of ESM. There are only a handful of civilians who are constantly writing to us and supporting us in our activities. We also thank you for your kind offer for donating money for Leh relief.

– Very fond regards – Chander Kamboj)
-----------

Rs 1000 donation for Leh by Cdr PP batra

From: prem parkash batra [mailto:premprempb@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 12:56
To: Kamboj Chander
Cc: rajkadyan@yahoo.com; satbirsm@yahoo.com; rpchaturvedi@gmail.com
Subject: Fw: DONATIONS FOR LEH WILL GET EXEMPTION UNDER 80G OF THE INCOMETAX ACT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 368/2010 - (A to G) - 14 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Sir,

1. Thanks.

2. We are reaching India end Aug and the earliest Cheque can be reached to Maj Gen Satbir Singh, Vice President, Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement [IESM], is early September.

3. On 2nd thought, may I request you that like you, have a contribution of Rs.1,000/-done on my behalf towards relief efforts of the Army at Leh. And I will send the Cheque to Maj Gen Satbir Singh once in India.

With best regards,

Cdr Prem P Batra
(Dear Cdr Batra, I have made arrangements to pay Rs 1,000.00 on your behalf – Chander Kamboj)

Donation for col Chhokar by Wg.Cdr.R.S.Murthy

From: Wg.Cdr.R.S Murthy [mailto:murthyrsm@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 11:54
To: Kamboj Chander
Cc: colbschhokar@gmail.com
Subject: Re: DONATIONS FOR LEH WILL GET EXEMPTION UNDER 80G OF THE INCOMETAX ACT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 368/2010 - (H to Z-1) - 14 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Brig,

I am mailing a cheque of Rs. 1000/- tomorrow.

Dear Chhokar, I can send some money to u also for ur mental care. Take care.


Wg.Cdr.R.S.Murthy

Rs. 2000 donation for Leh by Lt. Col. K.S. Puntambekar (AFV)

From: KESHAV PUNTAMBEKAR [mailto:ksp11564p@hotmail.com]
Sent: 14 August 2010 23:11
To: BRIG. C.S. KAMBOJ VSM (AFV)
Subject: Re: Intimation Of Forwarding My Contribution Towards LEH RELIEF


Dear Brigadier,

In response to an appeal made though “Report My Signals E-Mail 368/2010 (H to Z1) dated 14 Aug 2010”, I have to day (15 Aug 2010) dispatched a Bank Of Maharashtra Chembur Branch, A/C Payee Cheque bearing No 248631 dated 15 Aug 2010 in favour of Indian Ex Servicemen (IESM) A/C 06162000001330 for Rs. 2000.00 (Rupees Two Thousand) only. This amount is towards LEH RELIEF as my personal contribution. As suggested the cheque is dispatched through Professional Couriers & will be delivered to you in time.

This is for your information only.

With regards

Lt. Col. K.S. Puntambekar (AFV)
------------

rs 5000 donation for Leh by Lt Col VN Kharkar

From: Vijay Kharkar [mailto:vijaykharkar@gmail.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 10:10
To: sanyogita palande
Cc: Kamboj Chander; IESM_GovBody@yahoogroups.com; satbirsm@yahoo.com
Subject: Leh Relief Fund

Dear Sanyu,

I am copying an extract from an email. Please do send a cheque for Rs. 5000 from my BOM A/c no 20099997577 as per details in the extract.

Please do accord highest priority to this task.

Daddy
(Lt Col VN Kharkar, Currently out of India)

Rs. 10000 donation for LEH by Lt Col Vinay Khanna

From: Vinay Khanna [mailto:ransomesindia@yahoo.com]
Sent: 15 August 2010 11:14
To: Kamboj Chander; IESM_GovBody@yahoogroups.com
Subject: DONATIONS FOR LEH

Rs 10,000.00 cheque drawn on Union Bank of India under despatch to Gurgaon address of IESM

Lt Col Vinay Khanna,SM
IC -10144, Ex-Signals
C-79 , G.K.- I , New Delhi - 110 048
M 91 9818301089
15 Aug 2010

Function held in Silani... Jhajjar.Some Images

Maj gen Satbir Singh...


Hony Lt K pandey ...

Gen AJB Jaini...

The big gathering...

lt gen raj Kadyan

IESM, its People and its Mission...by Hony Lt Pandey

From: CoreGpIESM@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CoreGpIESM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kameshwar Pandey
Sent: 15 August 2010 04:40
To: CoreGpIESM@yahoogroups.com; ExecutiveGpIESM@yahoogroups.com; rajkadyan@yahoo.com; satbirsm@yahoo.com; kamboj@itintellectuals.com; pravesh renjen; sharansahuja@gmail.com
Subject: IESM, its People and its Mission...


Dear and Respected Sirs and Colleagues,

A very happy Independence Day to all of you. And I think today is an appropriate day for this email.

I write to you in connection with the recent outstanding Defence Watch episode that was aired on DD News, the issues that it raised and some emails from respected members questioning any or all of achievements of IESM in the last 18 months or so. Also, the email also intends to answer the unwelcome allegations made on one of the most dedicated Fighters in this struggle for justice for defence forces -- Maj Gen Satbir Singh.

A lot has already been said about the Defence Watch program on DD News. How effective it was. How IESM and IESL were speaking on the same platform and were non-conflicting for the most part. How awesome the host was and how awesome everything went.

Hold on just a bit. Back up. Stop.

I want all of us to take a step back and analyze something very important and something that can so easily be overlooked. And the question is this:

WHY WAS SUCH A PROGRAM AIRED ON NATIONAL TV? WHY ARE PEOPLE WANTING TO TALK ABOUT IT? WHY IS OROP A WORD THAT MOST CITY DWELLERS ARE AWARE OF?

Why, I ask!

And you do not have to answer me. Or anyone else. Be honest and answer this question in your own heart and the answer is fairly simple and obvious.

If IESM, under the able leadership of Vice Chairman Maj Gen Satbir Singh and Chairman Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and other IESM founders, had not started this Mission Justice for Defence Forces, no one and make no mistake, no one would have been talking about OROP or military veterans or their challenges. Frankly once a service personnel puts down his cap and belt, the ordinary civilian (which includes the government and the bureaucracy) does not give a rat's a$$ (excuse my French, please) to what happens to that retired soldier. The ordinary civilian does not care if we live or die or simply rot away. They got what they wanted from us and we are useless for them now.

And this is what has changed. IESM has changed things. It has brought to surface and very effectively, the issues a military veteran faces after retirement. It has achieved what no other organization never achieved or even probably aimed to achieve -- putting military veterans back on the radar, in the limelight, right in the ordinary civilian's face.

Now OROP is a term most people have an idea about. It is discussed in the parliament by the president and the prime minister and others. It is discussed by politicians in their party meetings. It is discussed by the Toms and Janes and Rahuls and Sohans on their breakfast table. Some civilians say yes to it. some say no to it. But nearly all of them know about it. That, my friends, is the first step to our victory. IESM has made sure that we will not take invisibility for an answer. That we wont be left at the mercy of the nation we served and protected with everything we had. We will stand up and be counted. And we will get what is fair and what is right.

And how did all this occur? How did we accomplish this? We accomplished this because IESM happened. And IESM happened because some visionary people could identify this problem. That the military veterans deserve more. That change is needed.

So that's why the program happened. That's why newspapers carry these news items. That's why these rallies all across the country are thumping successes and that's why IESM will win this war for all military veterans all across the country. That's why the high offices and civilians with 'lal batti' on their cars look so shaken. That's why they want us divided. That's why they want us to fight. But that is ALSO why we must stick together. That is also why we need to be stronger than ever. That is why we can safely say that we are closer to winning this war than we ever were.

Now some people have a problem with this movement. Oh no I'm not talking about the civilians. I am talking about people from the military veteran community. They want us to stop. They want to protect the status quo. I thought of this as ridiculous and funny in the beginning and thought that these respected veterans would stop. But they are not. And its not funny anymore. Although all throughout this time I have been analyzing these certain 'elements'. And it is not difficult to crack their 'code'. There are two types of people who criticize IESM, its leadership, its operations and its mission.

1. Those who have vested interest in the status quo. Who are benefiting from the grief of millions of ESM. Those who have sold their souls for little pieces of gold, so to speak.

2. The second category are those addicted with inaction. They want to do nothing and that is reason enough for them to want no one to do anything. And in the words of a wise 'other's aliveness makes their deadness seem more real to them'. That's why they want everyone dead. They want no one to do anything so that they can lie to themselves and say 'oh hell, nothing can be done anyway so its not my fault you know!".

But both of these type of people cannot do it directly. Because anyone with brain even the size of a peanut will understand the logic in what IESM does and what its mandate is. So they do it by means of taking personal jibes at those who are working tirelessly for the cause of ESM under the IESM umbrella. They say we are cheating people. That we are scammers eating people's money away. And other things to the same effect.

To think that people can say such things about Gen Satbir and Brig Kamboj. Such humble, honest people who practically have no personal life because they have dedicated themselves to the ESM community and to IESM. Its just unacceptable.

Those who know Gen Kadyan, Gen Satbir, Brig Kamboj and the rest of the leadership of IESM as also dedicated senior veterans like Gen Jaini, Col Rajan, those who have spent time with them, those who have attended rallies with them, have worked with them closely, have been a part of the brainstorming sessions (and proudly I am one such person) who be able to understand, appreciate and thus respect the dedication, the passion that they have for this mission. They will understand how humble they are and how welcoming they are to constructive positive suggestions.

The recent email against Gen Satbir and his intentions for Leh relief was disappointing.

I understand that nothing I write today can be more vocal than the actions of Gen Satbir. But my fellow veterans and respected seniors, it is my duty to say it one more time that Gen Satbir is one of the strongest pillars of this movement.

In an organization there will always be certain differences of opinion pertaining to policies, functions, decisions and vision. But as leaders and as comrades in a mission the onus is on us to iron these out and to amicably work together and towards the mission. I firmly believe that there is a right way to put your point and there are other ways. I urge us to choose the right way. It is no secret that fragmentation will weaken us and unification will strengthen us. The choice is with us. Its that one last mile that remains gentlemen and we need to walk this mile together. As one.

On this Independence Day, let us all once again resolve to not stop, not quit and not give up until we win this war. And win we will.

I thank you all for taking the time to go through this rather lengthy email. I must apologize. But this was a subject very close to my heart. because it was about the organization that I am fully devoted to. It was about the people I have accepted as leaders and have come to respect them for their dedication and passion. It was about people whose humility and kindness is exemplary. And thus curbing the flow of emotions was rather difficult.

Thank you and Jai Hind.

Kameshwar

--
Kameshwar Pandey
Sub/Maj Hony. Lt. (Veteran)

Letter to editor by Wg cdr Kapoor

From: RSingh305@aol.com [mailto:RSingh305@aol.com]
Sent: 09 August 2010 17:47
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: SOME OF THE EMAILS RECEIVED FROM MEMBERS - SET 3 - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" -...

With reference to the excellent letter to the editor, "The Times of India", written by Wing Commander SC Kapoor (retd.), I would like to say:

He has rightly lodged his strong protest with the editor over the publicity given to the victims of atomic "bombs that shook the world," while ignoring any homage whatsoever to the sacrifices of our own Jawans who are killed in action.

I recall my own disgust a long time ago when our political leaders used to "wail and cry" over the partition of Palestine, hailing Yasser Arafat as a great leader and patriot but never ever mentioned the Partition of our own India that suffered huge loss of territory and created TEN TIMES more refugees than the number of Palestinian refugees.

Mr. Yasser Arafat was received and honoured in India as State guest. He used to go back laden with honours and cash awards. Indian news media covered every detail of his trips at full length. I realized then that it was India's official policy to ignore her own Partition but to make big fuss over similar tragedies thousands of miles away from our borders.

It is very bad, indeed, to see that decades on, the same policy of ignoring our own soldiers and their sacrifices by the Indian media continues.

Regards
Rajinder Singh Rajput
Veteran, UK
9 Aug 2010

INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA..by Wing Commander SC Kapoor (retd)

From: subhash kapoor [mailto:sckaps@yahoo.co.in]
Sent: 09 August 2010 12:00
To: mytimesmyvoice@timesgroup.com
Cc: IESM MILITARY VETERANS GROUPS
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA NEW DELHI

WANTED: INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA (W:IIIIM)


A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA NEW DELHI*

To:

The Editor
The Times of India
New Delhi

Sir:

Mr. Milkha Singh, the legendary sportsman, has said that because of scams bedevilling the Commonwealth Games it would have been better had the Army handled the mega event (The Times of India, August 8). Whereas the respect and the trust reposed by Mr Singh in the Armed Forces is to be appreciated the fact remains that their prime function is to look after the security of the country and, in exceptional cases, perform any other task for which their help is specially solicited or asked for.

However, there is great scope for gainful utilisation of a large number of Military Veterans who are adept in the areas of their specialisation at various levels of the hierarchy besides being committed and disciplined. Invested with due authority and status they rise to the occasion and acquit themselves as creditably as any others.

Warm regards.

Sincerely,

Wing Commander SC Kapoor (retd)
Member Indian Ex Servicemen Movement Veterans Groups
E-145, Sector 21
Noida-201 301
Mob: 9810515424

E C H S..HEALTH CARE FOR THE VETERANS

From: swastikgreens [mailto:swastikgreens@airtelmail.in]
Sent: 10 August 2010 10:39
To: Kamboj Chander
Cc: satbirsm@yahoo.com; rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Subject: E C H S..HEALTH CARE FOR THE VETERANS

The experience of veterans makes a sad reading and we owe it to them to put our heads, hearts and hands together and set the system run smoothly. Some of the possible steps may be considered..

Since clearing of hospital bills seems to be the demon we must streamline it and lay down a time limit for clearance of bills after which the bills must be deemed ‘passed’.

Pending this we have to contact both empanelled and other super speciality hospitals and seek their assistance to provide facility to veterans at subsidised rates or alternately.

The veteran pays as per the ECHS rates and himself claims the bill money paid by him. Rather tough for us to bear but can be of use when no other avenue is open.

We must allowed to consult/get diagnosis from any super specialist of our choosing by paying ourselves and get the recommended treatment /medicines through ECHS.

Diabetics seem to be the worst hit. They require regular sugar level checks..Fasting,PP,3 AM,..before dinner ,after dinner. and random as advised by the specialist. They must be given a Glucometer once in 3 years and a pack of 25 strips every 3 months to relieve their ordeal. This is the way they test in the best specialist hospitals also. For Gurgaon the diabetes specialist on panel visits Rockland for 2 hours thrice a week but a full fledged Diabetic Centre Sitaram Bhartiya Research institute is not on panel even though the offer comprehensive packages to diabetitce esp veterans.

The point requiring immediate attention is the travelling of veterans from bus stops to ECHS and back .The sick and aged have to trudge along for good 5 km or so one way and get back again in rain,sun or cold by most uncomfortable means or on foot mostly having to carry the month’s CSD stuff also..

We have to immediately provide ,to begin with amenity transport from the unit running the show and the two CSD stores from canteen profits and along with contact corporate,,TATAS,MAHENDRAS etc to lend a helping hand. Let us really take care of the men we commanded.

Now Let US FACE THE BALL. G of I,MOD,RRM OR P.M cannot be expected to come to our resecue because we are APOLITICAL...the neuteral......
The ECHS has all the senior , talented and well known officers as members we must request them to contact the various hospitals , corporates and NGOs and seek maximum help and co-orperation. This can be our only hope to find solace and do our duty to the vateranse.

JAI HIND
Major Mehandru

SOME MORE INPUTS ON DD PROGRAMME

From: Harsh Pant [mailto:hvpant687@yahoo.co.in]
Sent: 10 August 2010 05:18
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: SOME MORE INPUTS ON DD PROGRAMME AND OTHER EMAILS FROM MEMBERS - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 352/2010 - (H to Z-1) - 09 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

BLOOD TEST
(FASTING)

Sir,
I am diagnosed with NIDDM.
I spend Rs 10/- for my Fasting report. May I share how:-
Syringe and vial for collection are taken from ECHS.
I go at 0600 h (6 A.M.) to a private lab close to my house.
All I ask the technician is, in lighter vein, to be a "khatmal" draw blood and load it in the ECHS vial. He normally does not ask for any remunaration-I pay him in gratitude.
Have my morning cuppa tea at 0615. Go comfortably to ECHS after B'fast- get the PP sample taken there and deposit the Fasting sample.
Collect report next day.
No problems for me. No objection by ECHS.
Your discretion in case it should be passed on.

With warm regards and Best wishes

Merry go round ECHS by Cdr avtar singh

From: avtar_singh10@hotmail.com
To: satbirsm@yahoo.com
Subject: Programme on ECHS
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 17:02:41 +0530

Respected General Sir,

I understand that you are attending a programme on ECHS tonight on DD News.

Be good enought to address the following.

1. Where should a veteran from East Delhi go in case of High fever during silent hours

2. Is there any plan by ECHS to position specialist of various field at ECHS poly clinic (s there any deadline)

3. The procedure currently followed by an arthritis patient needing joint replacement of knee is

(a) To first visit ECHS Polyclinic

(b) To take a referral for Base hospital (about 40 KM away from East Delhi) and visit Base hospital

(c) Visit again Base hospital and carry out investigations

(d) Take a referral for Referral from Base hospital and then come back to ECHS poly clinic

(e) Take a referral for R & R% from ECHS and then visit R and R

(f) Complete investigation reqd by R and R and then visit specialist

(g) Take a date for operation

(h) Carryout out pre operation formalities and then undergo operation.
4 Can the above formality be cut down

5. What is the maximum distance from Base hospital beyond which a patient can opt for empan
elled hospital?


Regards

Avtar Singh
Lt Cdr
8-7-2010

DISCUSSION ON TV REGARDING VETERANS by Col Raman

From: ramantn sarma
Sent: 10 August 2010 08:18
To: DELETED
Subject: DISCUSSION ON TV REGARDING VETERANS

Defence Watch

Dear Veterans,

The programme on the DD Channel telecast at 10.30 pm, well past the prime time, ensured that only a few dedicated Veterans watched the show. How ever, the discussion was engrossing. Maj Gen Satbir Singh, was fully primed & was well prepared. So was Maj Gen Ashok Mehta, who appeared to have been well tutored by the MOD. He politely put across some views from the Govt side, ie, Returning of Medals, signing of memorandum in blood etc, which may be construed by the public as unbecoming of military behaviour.

Brig Gulia, President IESL, did not voice either his consent or dissent to such acts. Let us not conclude that the IESM, therefore, has the tacit approval for such forms of demonstrations from the IESL. Far from it.

The reason is, as brought out by Gen Satbir Singh himself, that IESL is the Govt recognised body & their Patrons are the President of India & the RM. Hence it has its own limitation in fighting for a cause & IESM does not have such inhibitions. Both the heads of these ESM Organisations, were in full agreement with each other that the ESM Committee must be tailored on the pattern of Minority Commission, fully manned by the Veterans themselves ( though Brig Gulia said maximum members from ESM), ESMW Directorate must be revamped with Serving Soldiers & the Veterans, the entire chain of Veterans Welfare must be revised, so that right up to the Districts level, we have some dedicated Serving Officers to look after the Veterans affairs.

On a question from Ashok Mehta, Gen Satbir explained that there are more than 300 recognised ESM Associations in the country, since the ESM feel that they require a forum, to take up the issues affecting them locally.

Air Marshal Kuldip Rai, was in complete control of his subject of ECHS. He admitted that the ECHS is still growing & there is a lot of distance to cover, to provide consumer satisfaction. Therefore, we can depend on him to implement some valid suggestions made by Brig Muthu Lashmi & Maj Gen RN Radhakrishnan, in this regard (kindly refer to their mails).

This was the first time that the two stalwarts from IESL & IESM faced each other in a discussion, not to fight each other, but to lay a path of coexistence. Brig Gulia was there, as a matter of right. He has the numbers & the recognition by the Govt. Whereas, Maj Gen Satbir Singh was there, due to the psychological impact the IESM had made with much smaller membership base. In a span of couple of years, IESM has become the "Voice of the Veterans". The result is obvious. The Govt cannot ignore its presence. Do the numbers really matter?

Our complements to Maj Gen Satbir Singh, Brig Gulia & AM Rai. Of course to Maj Gen Ashok Mehta. He performed his role of anchor to perfection, because the participants in the discussion were well disciplined Veterans. Never exceeded the time & never seriously contradicted the differing views of the establishment. But, I could watch the anguish on the face of Satbir Singh, when he was cut short by the Anchor, immediately when the subject of Rank Pay came up. This is a solid case where the Supreme Court had ctegorically up held the contention of the ESM, but the Govt prefered an appeal. After all, the Anchor has his role to play, to save the Govt from some humiliation. Especially on a Govt TV Cahnnel. The discussion was terminated due to time up.

There are certain points made by Maj Gen Satbir Singh, which require some serious deliberations. He has stated that at present, the ESM Welfare in the States is funded by the respective States & the Centre on 50/ 50 basis. His suggestion was to have it entirely funded by the Centre, with States having no responsibility in funding. Is it feasible, practical or advisable, since all our Veterans belong to one State or the other & are in receipt of some concessions from their own States?

Other point is that the Supreme Court had upheld the concept of OROP, in a few of its verdicts. I feel that this view requires to be backed up by legal experts. Our own interpretation of various rulings may not suffice.


Veteran Raman
(Col TN Raman, Convener IESM Tamil Nadu)

VERY FIRST INPUT ON DD PROGRAMME by Col JL Chatterji

From: JLC [mailto:jaharc@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 09 August 2010 10:35
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: VERY FIRST INPUT ON DD PROGRAMME ON VETERANS OF 08 AUG 10 - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 351/2010 - (A to G) - 08 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Kamboj Sir,
Yes, I did watch the complete telecast with deep interest.


I agree wih Air Cmde Raghubir Singh. There was unanimity on sperate Pay Commission for Defence(serving and retired), unanimity on OROP, and unanimity on better medical facilities and ECHS.

One thing that was spelt out with out any ambiguity by Gen Satbir - about defence widows getting inadequate pension, was remarkable and noted by the anchor.

Gen Satbir Sir, you deserve kudos.

Best regards.

Col JL Chatterji
in GGN

DD Programme 08 Aug 10 by Col DP gupta Shimla

From: dharam gupta [mailto:prakashdpg@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 August 2010 02:14
To: CS Kamboj
Subject: DD Programme 08 Aug 10

My dear Brig,
I did watch the programme and have also conveyed to friends to watch on 11 Aug if already not seen.
One good thing that happened was that our problems have been aired for the first time on TV channels. Credit goes to the Core Group. My comments are as under:-
- one topic at a time would have been better due to limited time. say we could take up only ECHS
- Presence of a regular Anchor from DD , official from Central Govt and one eminent person could have provided more thrust to our cause.
Col D P Gupta (Shimla)

INPUTS ON DD PROGRAMME ON ESM by Col PA Cariappa

From: Cariappa Puliyanda [mailto:caripa05@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 August 2010 06:09
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Cc: Gp Capt Jaspal Bhinder; KUTTAPPA KONGANADA
Subject: INPUTS ON DD PROGRAMME ON ESM
Sir,
Language could have been in Hindi and timings could have been when one is receptive during day and in hours of darkness.If possible please use reginal channels and languages too. Not only the ESM population but others also need to know the crux of the problem.
Thanks and regards.
Col (retd) P A Cariappa.

Views of Brig Kartar Singh on DD Programme

From: Brig. Kartar Singh [mailto:ninerkartar24@rediffmail.com]
Sent: 09 August 2010 22:04
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: SOME MORE INPUTS ON DD PROGRAMME AND OTHER EMAILS FROM MEMBERS - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 352/2010 - (H to Z-3) - 09 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Brig,
My heartiest congrats to IESL & IESM for joining hands, hearts and heads for the cause of 2 million ESM. Well done and god bless Brig Gulia & Gen Satbir.
regards,
Brig Kartar Singh (President IESL Rajasthan)

IESM CORE GROUP MEETING AT 1030H TO 1530H ON SATURDAY 25 SEP 2010 AT AVCC NOIDA

Dear members of the core group IESM

IESM core group meeting pan India is planned to be held at 1030h on 25 Sep 2010 Saturday at AVCC Sector - 37 Noida. All the members are requested to attend the meeting .

Members are requested to forward their points to be included in agenda points. Agenda points for the meeting will be issued later.

It is proposed to reimburse the travel fare for travel of all the members of core group arriving for the meeting. Members can choose the most convenient mode of travel to reach the venue but the reimbursement will be restricted to actual fare or AC 3 tier whichever is less. Please do bring the receipts of your travel expenses.

All members, who are attending, are requested to kindly bring the photocopy of their tickets/receipts or send the photocopy of the ticket in advance so that the expenses can be reimbursed during the meeting. This is an audit requirement and we would not be able reimburse the cost without proper photocopy of the ticket/receipt.

All members are requested to make their own arrangements for stay at Delhi/Noida. However in case some members have some difficulty in arranging their stay, IESM will extend all the possible help. Please do communicate in case you need any assistance from us.

Kindly confirm your participation for us to make the meeting more meaningful.


Gp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
L - 48, Sector - 25,
NOIDA. 201301
Tele no 01204313951
Mobile 09810541222

DD PROGRAMME ON VETERANS OF 08 AUG 10 -by Veteran Ram Gulrajani

fromRam Gulrajani
to"IESM Kamboj CS, Brig" ,
ranjitrai123@gmail.com,
IESM Satbir Singh Maj Gen ,
IESM Raj Kadyan Lt Gen

dateTue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:41 AM

subjectComment:DD PROGRAMME ON VETERANS OF 08 AUG 10 -

Dear Veterans

I too watched the said programme on DD News. The input from Veteran Ranjit Rai is very apt. Gen Satbir Singh put forth the point of view of veterans and about the injustices meted out to them, aptly and appropriately within the time constraints. Given a little more time and opportunity Gen Satbir would have laid bare many more indiscriminations on soldiers and veterans and put to shame all those pseudo patriots and their side-kicks who sing hypocritical paeans to defence forces on national occasions (one such approaching very soon). It was very heartening to see Brig Gulia (IESL) and Gen Satbir (IESM) complementing each other on the issue of veterans. However, my only regret is that the programme was telecast too late in the night when most of the people have already retired for the day and that it was on DD News, the least watched programme among the bouquet of news channels. All the same, as a sarkari channel, it was good.

Regarding the 'jar' at Gen Satbir calling Gen Mehta 'Sir' on the programme, I wish to state that it is in the ethos of Defence Forces (at least in the Army) to continue to address the person as 'Sir' who had been once his senior. Many youngsters who once called me 'Sir' and scaled greater heights in life, continue to address me 'Sir' even today. At one occasion when I addressed 'Sir' to an officer who had been a youngster in my regiment, he got down from the podium, embraced me and without any hesitation said: "Sir, I am still the same old bacha for you. Please don't call me Sir. I have still many things to learn from you." Touching elocution and down to earth sentiment. That is the culture which binds us and makes us unique in the otherwise jungli milieu in which we step in after retirement. As veterans we may be equal but in our approach we do not shed our respect for each other. This American culture of equality is alien to both British and Indian culture.

Veteran Ram Gulrajani

VERY FIRST INPUT ON DD PROGRAMME ON VETERANS OF 08 AUG 10

From: Ranjit Rai ranjitrai123@gmail.com
Sent: 08 August 2010 22:17
To: Kamboj Chander; Gen Satbir Singh, SM
Cc: Air Marshal Kuldip Rai
Subject: Re: VERY FIRST INPUT ON DD PROGRAMME ON VETERANS OF 08 AUG 10 - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 351/2010 - (H to Z-2) - 08 AUG 2010 (USA CT)

Dear Kamboj,

The show was good for the cause of the retired and those who will retire, and showed the UPA is insensitive to the retired and Ashok Mehta did quip 'now you are retired'.

Agree with Raghubir Singh.

Those who saw the programme nationally must have been moved. It was heartening to see IESL and IESM speak in one voice and both were forceful and forthright.

Satbir was spirited and gathered all issues. AM Rai did explain ECHS challenges well ........

In the beginning Gen Mehta was condescending using words like the PERCEIVED GRIEVANCES and UNDEMOCRATIC MEANS of returning Medals and signing in blood on issue of OROP. I liked Satbir respond and raise the plight of PBOR with pension figures (less than a peon today), avoiding officers issues.

The only jar was Satbir calling Mehta Sir a few times as if he is still his boss....we must get out of Ji Hazooor ...he was there as an anchor in civvies in a paid job and glad in the end he admitted to the need to look in to issues.

Ranjit Rai
(Cmde Ranjit Rai, Vice President Indian Maritime Foundation, New Delhi)

DD Programme

From: brig kml
Date: 9 August 2010 15:05
Subject: Re: [MilitaryVeterans] On TV Tonight
To: CK Sharma
Cc: MilitaryVeterans@yahoogroups.com



Dear sir,

I am Brig Mrs K Muthulaxmy retired from MNS an 1.7.1996 and presently doing advocatery at Chennai.Watched the DD yesterday. Gen Satbir sir, my hearty congratulations,you brought it well.Yes when a PBOR /Officer retire at the age of 35 to 40 he has a big responsibility to educate his children and care for his old parents.At that time he has a mere pension to meet all the big expenditures.I suggest that why can't we take up this with Def ministry if the PBOR/officer is willing, immediately he must be placed in approprate civil service.Certainly the Ex service men will give better out put than his civil counterpart.

2. This is to clarify from Air Marchal Rai,
Sir I am a core group member of AFVOA Chennai.
When the ECHS started I did attend the meeting of then AG Lt.Gen Natarajan and I am sorry to say not even
10% is put in practice.
I have a few points to state on behalf of AFVOA Chenani.
a) A vetran to get his blood routine check up he has to come as far as 25 kms to ECHS poly clinic. He is being an autogeneran 80 + he has to come by car or an Auto that cost atleast Rs 300/- one way.
b) If a fasting blood test he has to wait fasting till 9 AM.Echs opens at 8 Am and get your chit made to reach Lab it will be 9 Am.Is it advisable a diabetic patient to wait till 9 Am empty stomach, he will be hypoglycemic and get the wrong report and treated as per the report again he has to make two trips to ECHS to show the report to Dr and get the medicine.Total expenditure will be roughly Rs.600/-
c) This can be avoided by allowing them to get a blood sugar and what ever the test done at near by lab and reimburse the money when he produce the bill to OIC ECHS.
d)ECHS Polyclinics working hrs are from 8 am to 4 pm.Continouse 8 hrs a Dr to work efficiently ? and get a pay of Rs 20000/-A private Dr if he is a specialit his counseltation is Rs 300/- and a just MBBS Rs 100 to150.Our ECHS Dr as an average attend 50 to 60 pts.and what is their pay?just Rs 20000/-and on top we fix the age limit,that is one of the main reason most Drs not keen to join ECHS.
e) Echs works up to 4 pm,where as Hospital working Hrs upto 2 Pm. Some medicines are not available at ECHS and has to be collected from hospital pharmacy which closes at 2 Pm, and the poor Ex service man has to make one more visit to collect the medicine.

My humble submission to
Air Marshal Rai , Sir can you kindly take up the matter with higher authorities and find a solution.

I have some solution from Chennai
1. Please allow to get the blood test done by near by lab and pay the money on production of the lab bill.No one want to waste their precious blood for the sake of mere Rs 100/-
2. The OIC ECHS must be given some financial power to pay the Ex Service men like the small bills and also OIC to buy some medicine instead making the old ex service men to come many times.
With warm regards.
Muthulaxmy

Programme on ESM on DD on 08 Aug 2010

Dear General Satbir Singh/Brigadier RKS Gulia,

The programme on ESM aired on DD last night came out well. Best part was that both IESL & IESM were on one platform -jointly espousing the cause of the veterans instead of towing the line.If this type of unity continues lot many wrongs can be set right.

Air Cmde Raghubir Singh(Retd)

TV PROGRAMME ON ISSUES OF EX- SERVECMEN

TV PROGRAMME ON ISSUES OF EX- SERVECMEN


Dear Friends,


A Door Darshan Programme on issues of Ex Servicemen Titled. “Defence Watch” will be telecast at 10.30PM Today i.e. 08 Aug 10 at “DD News”. The programme will be repeated at 3.30 PM as Wednesday 11Aug 10.

This programme has Gen Ashok Mehta as the anchor with Air Marshal Roy (ECHS expert), Brig Gulia (President IESL) and self as participants.

You are requested to watch the programme. Pass on the info to as many ESM as possible.

With Regards,

Jai Hind

Yours Sincerely,


Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM

Vice Chairman Indian ESM Movement

Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-4110570

Email: satbirsm@yahoo.com

ECHS: BATTLE OF THE VETERANS A CASE STUDY Dental related treatment

ECHS: BATTLE OF THE VETERANS A CASE STUDY Dental related treatment
1. I really wonder after the Battle has been lost and won was it worth going through the ECHS for fixed dentures? At the end of the day I have ended up paying Rs 16000/- for the fixed dentures to cover the gap of 4 teeth on top (now 6 teeth denture) and one bottom gum (now 3 teeth fixed denture).
2. It took over a dozen visits to ECHS BH, Tilak Nagar star imaging and path lab, R&R and of course finally Rampal Dental Clinic in GKII.
3. I am presently reasonably satisfied with the job which had my approval while on the Dental Chair. Initial cost was quoted as Rs 1 Lac for Top Quality fixed Dentures. I said spending a lac at this age for elephant’s teeth is not worth. In one of the sittings I settled for flexible dentures for Rs 10000/- and in the final sitting the doctor while on the dental chair recommended that I should go for the fixed denture of a reasonable quality which would cost Rs 30000/- as the health of the teeth on both sides is bad and would have to be treated in 6-8 months. When I said the cost appears to be still beyond my budget. Negotiation landed up to Rs 18000/-.
4. Now I have sets of partial two fixed dentures of hopingly reasonable quality. I was told ECHS pays only Rs 500/- per month tooth denture. Rs 2000/- was finally reduced and I ended up finally paying Rs 16000/-.
5. There may be many similar cases which go unreported. As a post treatment ECHS may be able to comment that did I receive the correct treatment or I paid excessive through decision was ultimately mine for which I do not blame anyone from the ECHS. I wonder did I gain anything going through the ECHS for my dental treatment keeping in mind the time spent in waiting and trips made that is for the ECHS to decide.
6. I really wonder if I got true value for my money. Did I benefit from the noble idea of ECHS’s envisaged aim of extended health arm to reach near the veterans door step?
Veteran Col RC Patial , SM

Maj Gen Pension Victory deflated by GOI by Maj Gen SC Suri

Maj Gen Pension Victory deflated by GOI
Hello every one,
Our SC case came up for hearing yesterday & Naresh & myself were present in the Court. Our Senior Counsel Nidhesh Gupta got up to argue the case
& the Govt Chart that they had given us .But the Govt lady counsel immediately got up & said it was not possible to discuss the case off hand & we must file a counter affidavit .

Justice Altamas Kabir agreed with her & the case is adjourned to 9th Sep & before that we have to give them our affidavit 10 days in Advance.
Thus another day was wasted & the never ending saga goes on & on . But I suppose one has to bear with system , I can however, assure you that it is NO joke to attend the hearing in this heat. !

All the same we have taken the responsibility so there is NO problem at all.

Please inform all your friends who are affected.
Warm regards
Satish
Maj Gen SC Suri (Retd)

Well Done everyone at Pune

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shashank Bendre
Date: 9 August 2010 10:08
Subject: [pensioncell_iesm] Pension Case-W/C Aroskar
To: IESM Pension Group




Dear All,

Wg. Cdr. Aroskar's (1996 retiree) pension was not revised by his PDA , The Bank of Maharashtra after Wg.Cdrs were placed in PB-4 and was being paid about Rs. 13000/- less than what he should have got with basic pension at Rs.25700/-. Unfortunately he suffers from a medical problem and therefore was not in a position to know that he was being denied correct amount of pension. Since I know Aroskar personally, I guided his wife and daughter in taking up the matter with the bank. They got the correct pension and the arrears in July 2010. The manager of the branch was unhelpful but after fighting the case, the bank paid interest on arrears at 8 % too.

In this case, Gp.Capt Phatak took a lot of pains to guide me and also brought up the matter with the CMD of the bank who was very symphathetic towards pensioners and especially the veterans.

This case shows that with proper guidance and effort. pensioners can get their dues. However, there would be countless number of pensioners and families of PBOR and those in small towns and villages, who are being denied their rightful dues but are unaware of it.

I am very thankful to G/C Phatak and Cdr. Ravindra Pathak of Pension Cell for their active help and guidance to me.

Regards,

Shashank Bendre
Wg. Cdr. (Retd)

PROTOCOL ARMED FORCES - SIXTH PAY COMMISSION

The implementation of sixth pay commission has drastically changed the warrant of precedence (WoP) for the Indian Armed Forces.

The chairperson of UPSC has been upgraded to article 9A over services chiefs (at article 12).
He/she used to be earlier at article 17 below services chiefs and also
below officiating chiefs of the rank of Lt Gen who were on article 16.

Chairperson of SCs and STs were added on article 17.
Both these chairpersons are now higher than Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs who are on article 23.

Members of SCs & STs placed at same level of Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs at article 23.

What more to say, even Field Marshall Manekshaw was placed at
article 12 below two former civil servants ( Brijesh Mishra and Vijay
Kapoor). Now, does anyone know what these gentlemen have done for INDIA????

As was well known, Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs were equated with
secretaries to Govt. of India on article 23. However, Note 10(c) of the WoP
make an interesting distinction: In official functions held at Delhi, Army
Commanders /Vice Chiefs of the Army Staff or equivalent in other services
will always rank after the secrataries to the Government of India.
Following are the deductions:
*
*
*
*1. DIG is now officially equivalent to a Brigadier (Earlier this rank was
even junior to a Colonel)*
*2. Ministry of Home Affairs has declared that all IPS officers shall
attain the rank of DIG in 14 year's service.*
*3. Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) is now officially equivalent to the
rank of Major General.*
*4. Dept of Pers & Trg has declared that all IAS officers shall attain the
rank of SAG in 14 year's service.*
*5.**What would be achievable by 100% IPS officers in 14 years would now
be achievable by 7% defence officers in 28 years.*
*6. What would be achievable by 100% IAS officers in 14 years would now be
achievable by 2% defence in 33 years.*
*
*
*It is pertinent to mention that the senior most civilian rank in a state
was equivalent to a Colonel during independance; whereas , over a period of
time, the nation has only seen the downfall our BABUS. Their machinary
collaps even with a simple storm, whereas, their protocol has kept on
rising. I dont need to mention the professionalism of our Armed Forces;the
nation knows well.*
*In principle, our politicians needs to give an explanation for this
remarkable erosion of a soldier's status over the past sixty years.*
**
*
*
*It is high time that we speak up or else GOD only save this country.*

Latest Kerala Govt orders on Tax Exemption

Dear Col Thapa,

Here are the latest orders. It is in Malayalam as per the latest policy. So Im enclosing the scans of the orders in Malayalam and my translation in English. You will find they are very liberal. Let us hope the other states also emulate this.

with best wishes and warm regards,

Col RPG

GOVERNMENT OF KERALA

SYNOPSIS

LOCAL SELF GOVT DEPT- ISSUES ORDERS GRANTING EXEMPTION FROM PROPERTY TAX ON HOUSE IN THE NAME OF SPOUSE OF EXSM

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOCAL SELF GOVT (R.C) DEPT
G.O (ord) 1761 /2010/ L.S.G.D DT: 27 May,2010

Ref: - 1. L.S.G.D Order No: G.O (M.S) 212/2008 DT: 25 - 07 – 2008.
2. L.S.G.D Order No: G.O (M.S)171/2009 DT: 29 – 08 – 2009
3. Representation from Sri Sreekumaran Nair of Vadakke Padinjathu Veedu, 239/A, Ward 36, Kozhikode Corporation.

ORDER
Order exempting an EXSM or his widow from paying property tax for one house exclusively used for his/her residence in their own name, irrespective of the plinth area has already been issued vide G.O under ref (2).

2. Vide Ref (3), it has been represented that an EXSM who does not have a residence in his own name but in the name of his wife and residing there in should be granted similar exemption .

3. After examining in detail the above the Govt have decided that an EXSM who does not possess a house in his own name and is living in a house in the name of his wife the concession will be allowed. However if he is living in a house in the name of his son or daughter the same will not be allowed. This concession will be subject to the following conditions:-

1. The EXSM will submit an affidavit to the concerned L.S.G. Body recording the house no in the name of his wife certifying that the EXSM has no other house in his name elsewhere and that similar concession is not being availed for any other house in the name of his wife.
2. Whenever the exemption from property tax for a house in the name an EXSM/widow/his wife is granted, such fact should be recorded in discharge book or service record.
3. Whenever the EXSM/ widow/ wife transfers the ownership of such a house, the information should be furnished to concerned L.S.G authorities.
4. On the demise of such EXSM / widow/ wife the information should be furnished immediately to concerned authorities by next of kin.




By order of Governor,


S.M Vijayanand
Principal Secretary

To,


Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

By Order
Sd/-
Section Officer.

KARGIL CONTROVERSY..Lt-Gen Harwant Singh ( Retd )

--------
KARGIL CONTROVERSY
THE SORRY STATE
OF HIGHER DEFENCE MANAGEMENT
Lt-Gen Harwant Singh ( Retd )

Kargil conflict ended ten years ago and yet doubts and controversies persist. There are many questions that continue to nag. The more pertinent: why ingress was not detected in real time and the extent and depth of it determined early enough, why the IAF took so long to come on board. Why the Cabinet Committee on Security procrastinated for so long and chartered a timid reaction to Pakistan’s perfidy. Then there was a dysfunctional state of joint operational planning in the defence forces. Finally can the existing higher defence organization optimize to the full the collective potential of defence forces and ensure national security and territorial integrity of the country.

Equally intriguing is the underlying rationale to this misadventure by Pakistan and the limitations, inadequacy and timidity of Indian response. Many theories have been propounded on the reasons for Pakistan to undertake the risky adventure at Kargil. More so when, it had the portents of escalating into a larger conflagration, of which Pakistan had sound reasons to be scared. One misconception was that Indians are too cowardly and ill organized to offer any organized resistance.

Some other assessments by Pakistan, such as, lack of modernization of Indian army, the fatigue caused to it by decades of involvement in counter insurgency operations,(“ Indians whose armed forces are totally exhausted whose morale is at its lowest.”- Musharraf speaking to his troops, Oct 29,98 at Mangla – Kargil Review Committee Report page 82 )’ thinning out of Kargil sector by shifting troops for tasks in the valley, impossibility of taking back high features once occupied by Pak troops, shortage of officers, low budget allocations, etc may have contributed to the decision to stage Kargil drama.

Indian defence analysts too have advanced a few theories to explain Pakistan’s action at Kargil and Indian reaction. Though apprehensions of nuclear retaliation by Pakistan to any escalation of the conflict by India did not have any merit, yet Indian security establishment ‘over time’ had conditioned itself to the validity of the nuclear deterrence of Pakistan and the self induced assessment that, Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is controlled by its army which may be rash enough to press the nuclear button. During 1990 standoff, Pakistan had realized that its nuclear deterrence works well on India.

Failure to make any headway at Siachen had greatly frustrated the Pakistan army, more so it’s higher command. Towards the end of 1980s it started examining ways and means to drive Indian army into a position where it would find itself in a Siachen like situation, as faced by Pakistan.

Examination of the LAC revealed Kargil sector as the area where Pakistan could ‘Siachen’ India. It was thinly held, of forbidding heights and dominating features as difficult to tackle as Siachen heights. Pervez Musharraf in his book ‘ In Line of Fire ‘ ( page 87) states that, “India captured a location where they felt that our presence was thin and vise- versa. This is how they managed to occupy Siachen.” Here Indian army could suffer the same set of failures and frustrations that Pakistan army had been undergoing at the Saltaro Range. In addition, movement on Srinagar-Leh road could be interrupted. This plan was no secret from the political executive, as Benazir Bhutto had stated that the plan was presented to her and she had vetoed it. Nawaz Sharif had been fully briefed on this plan and the Indian establishment was being merely gullible in believing his assertions to the contrary.

To understand Kargil conflict one must know the military and terrain peculiarities of this part of the LAC, which falls amongst the highest snow fall regions of the Himalayas,( Dosai Mountains – though as one moves Northward, from Mushko valley towards Turtak, the severity of snow fall keeps decreasing)). Eight army posts in this sector were being vacated due to heavy snow conditions and consequent difficulty in maintaining these. Patrolling of the area during this period in the past had resulted in heavy casualties where even platoon size patrols disappeared under snow avalanches and that had imposed restrictions on patrolling of the vacated areas. To add to this was the extent of the sector ( 164 kms ) held by a brigade and there were the large gaps between defended posts, ranging from 10 to 25 Kms. In all the helicopter sorties during that period only one set of foot prints could be detected, which by themselves were of little consequence. At the same time snow conditions made tactical intelligence collection pretty much impossible.

Jehadis were not expected to occupy positions inside India. No large scale ingress by Pakistan could be expected across a well established LAC. It was India’s stated policy that any aggression in J and K would be considered an attack on India and that this country will respond accordingly. Moreover the local population in the sector is, Shiite Muslims, Buddhists and Drokes who have no sympathy for the Jehadis. With the opening of an alternate route to Leh via Manali, the importance of Srinagar-Leh route had reduced. Large scale movement of troops and preparations by Pakistan would be picked up by the Indian intelligence and Indian troops would have the necessary advance warning. Terrain too did not favour large scale operations by Pakistan.

Such were the reasonable assumptions coupled with some laxity in surveillance of the sector that resulted in the failure to detect ingress. However the significance of heavy artillery shelling in this sector during the previous year was not adequately analysed and appropriate inference drawn from this development. Instead we merely reacted with massive, though wasteful retaliation. The fact that Pakistan did achieve complete surprise was the result of colossal failure of Indian intelligence. Determining the extent and depth of ingress by foot patrols was a slow and time consuming process. Equally it was not feasible to immediately know the identity of the enemy or its intentions. Though, artillery support to those who had occupied the heights was a clear indication of Pakistan’s involvement.

VCOAS’s reluctance to go to the government with scanty information about the nature and extent of ingress must be seen in this background. However continuing with that position from 9/10 May to 17 May, till the issue was finally taken up with the RM etc is inexplicable.

The VCOAS ( army chief was out of the country ) approached the IAF for deployment of armed helicopters on 9/10 May. By then the Indian artillery was already relentlessly pounding the then known positions of the enemy within our territory. Helicopters would be operating well inside India, in totally uninhabited areas. Their employment in this manner could not be termed as, ‘offensive air support,’ a term rather loosely used by the air chief (Air Chief Marshal- Tipnis ) With proper coordination of artillery fire, enemy anti-aircraft potential could be neutralized for the duration these helicopters engaged the enemy. Equally safe helicopter operating bases ( at Matyan, Kargil and Bodkharbu ) could be established within a few minutes flying time to the targets, thus reducing fuel load and increasing the ceiling of these helicopters.

Air Chief’s sustained reluctance to deploy these and the attitude that, ‘we know better’ and it was ‘army’s problem’ and a condescending attitude can find little justification. This attitudinal posturing and dithering resulted in a delay of nearly one week, i.e, 6th to 17th May, 1999 before the issue could be taken to the RM. This delay was also due to the mind-set of the IAF as noted by Tipnis, “IAF has long contended that use of air power in direct support of the ground battle is its most inefficient utilization.” A view less and less supported by many an authority on application of air power. It is more a case of judicious distribution of resources between various tasks. In any case in the instant contingency there was, till then, no question of employment of IAF on tasks other than to support ground troops.

However this prioritizing of tasks in isolation and on IAF’s own bidding, highlights the void that existed between the two components of the defence forces and the dysfunctional state of the Chiefs of Staff Committee. In the end and after much acrimony and delay air force deployed these very helicopters on tasks earlier demanded by the army.

Air support for the ground battle is a vital factor for successful conduct of operations. Air battle without success on the ground can prove even less than a pyrrhic victory. Since support of ground battle is the least desirable task for the IAF and this support continue to remain vital component of ground battle, then some ground support air elements need to be integral to army’s fire support assets, as is the case with many armies.

As for the IAF’s approach to Kargil, the then air chief, AY Tipnis, in an article in a magazine called, ‘FORCE,’ has given a blow-by-blow account of the events leading up to the time the IAF was finally committed on 26 May 99. A close scrutiny of events brings out the fact that, army and IAF had been operating in water tight compartments, the Chiefs of Staff Committee was dysfunctional and there was, confusion and dithering in the Cabinet Committee on Security.( CCS ) Tipnis states that, “to make up for the initial lapse, the army was now seeking air force help.”

IAF took nearly one full week of dithering before this issue was taken up with the RM etc on 17th May for deploying armed helicopters. Another nine days followed before IAF was given the green signal. Air HQ’s indifferent responses, from 9th /10th May to 17th May are one of a piece. To the RM, the Chiefs of Staff Committee was unable to speak in one voice.

In briefing the RM and others, on 17 May, Tipnis stated, “offensive air operations must have priority over ground support role.” In the instant case there was no requirement for offensive air operations. What was asked was the support of armed helicopters. In the same briefing he added, “If air power was used offensively the escalation could be very rapid to any level and anywhere. ----.” In this case ‘air power’ was (armed helicopters) to be used defensively, within Indian air space on targets well within own territory, so talking of ‘offensive air support’ and ‘escalation’ was an irrelevant input and yet good enough to confuse and frighten the RM and others.
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During the briefing on 18 May when, in addition PM and other members of CCS members were also present, Tipnis further confused them by saying, that “armed helicopter’s survivability in offensive role would be very low” (as if armed helicopter has any role other than operating against the enemy!) and “the IAF must have the freedom to use the fighters.” This was when the RM/PM and others were still pondering over the use of only armed helicopters. This linking of helicopters with fighter aircrafts further complicated the issue for the PM, RM and others. The result was, firstly the External Affairs Minister (EAM) went completely over board and pronounced that, “employment of air force would internationalise the issue.” Secondly the group dispersed without any decision except that the Principal Secretary ( P S ) to the PM and not the PM or the Deputy PM, made two points as noted by Tipnis:-


a) ‘For the present air power not to be used. ’.


b) ‘Hot pursuit’ by ground forces to be permitted in the area of the present operations, nowhere else.’

The enemy was well entrenched deep inside Indian territory and here the PS to the PM ( who was also the National Security Adviser ) talks of ‘hot pursuit’ , without the slightest notion as to what was actually involved in the tasks at Kargil. Also note the condescending note in his directions of ‘permitting’ the ground forces to take action against the enemy. At last when the IAF did join the fight the conflict was not internationalized nor did it escalate, thus proving the apprehensions and fears, induced into the EAM and air chiefs own misgivings to be ill founded and baseless.

From 20 to 25 May, Gen Malik, after his delayed return to India ( he attributes this delay to the fact that no one asked him to cut short his trip abroad and return - his book, ‘From Surprise to Victory.’ page 108 ) tried hard, though quite unsuccessfully, to get Tipnis to agree to the deployment of armed helicopters. In fact much petty fogging and acrimonious discussions took place in the Chiefs of Staff Committee resulting in frayed tempers.

The Air Chief, instead of persisting on government clearance for deploying armed helicopters, should have, without loss of time and along with other members of Chiefs of Staff committee ( VCOAS and CNS ) pointed out to the RM and others, that deploying IAF ( in own airspace ) could not possibly provoke Pakistan to escalate the fight against superior conventional forces ( both ground and air. ) View it from another angle. We had been subjected to aggression on a large scale and yet it is us who instead of going over to the counter offensive were scared stiff of Pakistan escalating the conflict, merely because our hitting, with air power, the enemy, that had occupied Indian territory, and when all this while Pakistan, fearing Indian retaliation, was at great pains to deny its involvement in the aggression. Some defensive mentality and pusillanimity on the part of India’s security establishment!

Air Marshal RS Bedi ( Retd ) former DG Defence Planning Staff, of MoD, in an article in Hindustan Times ( Chandigarh edition ) dated 21 June, 2004, commenting on the Kargil operations, noted that no air force in the world is trained to engage targets at heights of 15000 to 20000 feet nor are such weapons designed anywhere in the world. Perhaps he does not know that no air force in the world is required to engage targets at such high mountains. Though, the air marshal, by inference, admits that the IAF was neither trained nor equipped to support the Indian army at Kargil. Almost one third of the Indian army is deployed in the high mountains and the supporting air force, at the time of Kargil, had never trained itself to support it. If true, it is indeed a sad state of affairs, and is a direct reflection of the higher defence management.!

Brig Javed Hussain( Retd ) in an article in the ‘Dawn,’ a well known newspaper of Pakistan writes, “ Kargil provided an opportunity to the Indian High Command to convert a tactical loss into strategic gain. They could have selected an objective, the capture of which would not only produce tactical effects on their enemy on Kargil heights and Siachen, but strategic effect as well on their enemy’s high command. That objective was Skardu. As it commands lines of communications to Kargil intrusion and Siachen. What might have happened if, instead of attacking the heights at Kargil, they had captured the Skardu airfield, in a surprise attack by airborne troops and followed it up by a massive air lift of troops to rapidly build up the force of the size of an infantry division, closely supported by the IAF ------- If the Indian had pulled this off , what might have happened to Northern Areas and Kashmir?”

He continues, “Great captains of war are risk takers, because they know that too much caution and indecision can rob them of opportunity and success. Kargil once again exposed the limitations of the Indian High command --- their slavish devotion to orthodoxy and their lack of strategic thought.”

The point simply is that there was no great captain in the Indian military who could urge the political executive to let him seize the opportunity offered by Pakistan: to take the bull by the horns. For all one knows, the PM and others may have grasped the import of such a move. This would have also sent a clear message, in unequivocal terms, to Pakistan that mischief against India will not go unpunished. Instead the Army Chief acquiesced to troops being condemned to frontal attacks. The least he could have done was to demand and insist on tactical freedom in tackling enemy at the heights. Our timid response at Kargil, laid the foundation for future terrorist attacks on India, starting with the attack on Indian Parliament.

Coming back to the bogey of escalation, which played its notorious role in 1962, once more surfaced at Kargil: on equally baseless grounds. The clandestine and incognito travel of Tipnis ( dressed as wing commander ) to Srinagar to alert the air elements there for taking part in the Kargil operations merely highlights that the escalation bug had bitten hard. Tipnis notes in the article in ‘Force’ that, “there was total lack of army-air force joint staff work.” So much for those, who still continue to pitch for Chiefs of Staff Committee system. Committees cannot fight and win wars.

It is on mutual trust and understanding that healthy traditions can be built. Consider this. During the Second World War British army’s operations in Greece ran into near disaster and to save the army, its immediate evacuation by sea became imperative. During this phase of the war, Atlantic was dominated by the German U boats and the naval commanders assembled for the evacuation of the army stranded in Greece, strongly protested against under-taking this task due to the fear of losing a large number of ships. Admiral Cunningham, Admiral of the Atlantic Fleet told the assembled commanders that, “it takes 300 years to build a tradition and only three years to build a ship. The Royal Navy, as a tradition has never abandoned the army and therefore, it will evacuate the army irrespective of the losses in ships.” IAF by staying out of the 1962 war abandoned the army, when everything was in its favour and created serious misgiving.

Were the enemy to ingress in a more sensitive sector and or had the capability and the intention of driving deeper towards some vital objective, the pussy footing by the VCOAS, semantics and petty fogging within the Chief of Staff Committee, the divergent views given to the political executive, NSC’s own timidity and procrastination could have had grave consequences. Taking the situation at Kargil in its totality there was no need to go to the government for deploying armed helicopters to engage the invaders, especially when army was already pounding them with medium artillery. More recently Central Police is known to have used helicopter gunship against Maoists without reference to the government!

Time and again this discord and differing perceptions have surfaced amongst the higher command of the defence services. Services have failed to function as a well oiled machine and proof of this if any, lies in the fact that it took the army and the air force over two weeks to traverse common ground. Long after the Kargil conflict, the two service chiefs, ( Malik and Tipnis) through their writings, continued with their spat.

Existing arrangement of Chiefs of Staff Committee with its conflicting views, turf tending and differing recommendations can merely confuse the political executive, result in delays and dithering which would prove disastrous in the event of grave national emergencies demanding quick responses. The Chiefs of Staff Committee has repeatedly and completely failed to synergise the collective combat potential of various wings of the defence services. Kargil episode brings out the imperatives of single point of advise to the government from the defence services on national security issues and an authority that can synergise the full potential of the armed forces.

A nuclear and emerging economic power, ( in the midst of potentially unstable regimes ) with ambitions to exercise influence for the stability and security of the region and to safe guard vital national interests , cannot have an antiquated and potentially dysfunctional decision making and operational system in the defence apparatus. The delay in adopting the CDS system and integration of service headquarters with the MoD could prove very costly to the nation. Existing integration of defence services headquarters with the MoD is a complete farce, infact a joke and a meaningless exercise.

After the conflict a number of books have appeared, mostly to justify actions of authors of these books. The fact is that troops were thrust into battle without essential acclimatization and reconnaissance in frontal attacks along knife edge ridges and up impossible slopes. When the IAF at last did go into action, the presence of stinger missile pushed its aircrafts to great heights making acquisition of snow covered enemy positions difficult to acquire and engage. (earlier even low and slow flying helicopters could not detect these.) Yet its employment had tremendous psychological impact on the enemy. But for Air Commodore Jasjit Singh ( a well known defence analyst ) to claim, “exceptionally well executed aerial strikes by IAF provided an impetus--to the support of international community in favour of India rather than Pakistan,” ( Kargil 1999 – Pakistan’s Fourth War - page 129’) is to strain reader’s intelligence. Supporting artillery fire too was less helpful due to the nature of terrain, ever changing met conditions, inability to neutralize enemy guns and large time lag from lifting of fire and arrival of attacking troops at the objectives.

Success at Kargil can be attributed to three factors. One, spirit, resolve and the courage of troops and their officers. Two, Pakistan government developing cold feet and denying its troops at the heights continued support. Three, American pressure on Pakistan to withdraw its troops from Indian territory. Missing was generalship.

Finally did Pakistan gain anything from Kargil adventure! For one, it tested India’s lack of capacity and resolve to respond aggressively to a major mischief by Pakistan. It gauged the extent of India’s threshold of tolerance.

It made Indian army increase its deployment North of Zojila fourfold: in an area of least strategic importance in the India-Pak context. This has also imposed unwanted heavy burden on the Indian army’s budget in having to maintain troops North of Zojila. It emboldened Pakistan to mount major terrorist attacks against India which in turn, besides much else has made India, expend large sums as a result of these attacks. The mobilization of defence services ( Op Parakram ) consequent to attack on Indian Parliament cost India over Rs 1000 crores. Much larger sums have to be spent on NSG relocation with dedicated airlift capability and on Coastal Guard, raising of more police battalions etc after the Mumbai attack. During Kargil and soon after, large sums were spent on ‘panic purchases’ of equipment and ammunition, which later performed poorly and other scandals followed. Coffins to transport bodies of soldiers to their native places and laser guided ammunition from USSR for Bofors, to mention just two such cases

Fighting a ‘limited war’ by Lt-Gen Harwant Singh (retd)

The Tribune
Tuesday, August 3, 2010, Chandigarh, Indiahttp://www.tribuneindia.com/2010/20100803/edit.htm#4Fighting a ‘limited war’

It is a flawed concept

by Lt-Gen Harwant Singh (retd) IT is not clear as to when the idea or the concept of a “limited war” was first evolved and articulated. Maybe it was the fallout from the procrastination, dithering and timidity in our response and an alibi for the missed opportunity of a suitable riposte to a major mischief by Pakistan at Kargil. Such response would have put an end to the slow-bleeding of India by Pakistan. Or was it the result of the fiasco of “Operation Parakaram” (mobilisation of Indian defence forces consequent to the attack on Indian Parliament) where we thought we could go in for a limited war and then backtracked on conjuring up the prospects of a larger conflagration?
It takes a minimum of two contestants to make war. Therefore, both must subscribe to the idea of a limited war. It cannot work when one of the contestants does and the other does not fall for it. Then there is the issue of both scale and duration of the conflict. Here again there is the problem of the two adopting the same concept and course of action. There is also the hazardous undertaking of forecasting and then chartering the future course of a war and preparing for just that one contingency.

It is easy to start a war but difficult to conclude it on own terms. The German army, after nearly two decades of study, planning and preparation and detailed knowledge of every inch of the ground over which operations were to be conducted, prepared the Schlieffen Plan and catered for no other contingency. With over 350 army divisions, it undertook to over-run France in 40 days during World War I. The war lasted four years with disastrous consequences for Germany. The American war in Afghanistan is a case in point.

The second issue relates to a conflict between two nuclear-armed contestants. The parameters and compulsions for either side to transcend from a conventional war to a nuclear war are not that simple or easy to overcome. A whole range of considerations and possible consequences come into play, especially if the opponent has the wherewithal, the will and the capacity to completely devastate and lay waste the whole country. Consequently, in such a setting, the conflict will remain within the bounds of conventional warfare. Then there is the inevitable issue of reaching a stage (also sometimes called “threshold”) where the very survival, nay the existence, of the nation comes into play when a fatal decision to go in for the nuclear option can be considered. Sooner than later, world pressure is likely to prevail in ending the conflict.

Coming to the specifics of the Indo-Pak setting, neither side is willing to concede territory. This has led to extensive obstacles being created by both sides close to the border and these are effectively held. Consequently, major battles will be conducted within a few kilometres on either side of the border. Such was the case in 1965 and 1971 on the western sector. That has been and will remain the dominant reality of a conflict between these two neighbours. It is here along the plains of J and K and Punjab where the centre of gravity of the two countries lie, more so of Pakistan, and it is here that decisive battles, if and when they occur, will be fought.

The second and more important issue relates to meshing together the military and political aims of a war. These two cannot work in isolation or exclusion of one from the other. Clausewitz records that “war is continuation of policy”, but there has to be a “policy” to carry forward to war. Sometimes there can be a conflict or variance between the policy and the war aim. In such situations, it is the bounden duty of the military commander to lay bare before those who formulate national policy the full implications of pursuing a war which is at variance with military aim.

If in the opinion of the military commander, he is compelled to adopt a course other than what is in the national interest and the interest of his army, he should quietly make way for someone else. Had the then Army Chief in 1962 told some home-truths about the state of his Army and military infrastructure and offered to quit, the political leadership would have seen the reality and India could have been spared that humiliation and the Army the ignominy of a rout.
There are indeed innumerable instances where military commanders were able to carry their point and they proved eminently correct. The Russian army was required to defend Moscow against Napoleon’s advance. The Czar and his entourage insisted that the city must be defended. But, purely from the strategic military angle, Marshal Kutozov thought otherwise. Withstanding enormous pressure from the Czar and others, Kutozov did not defend Moscow and in the process saved Russia, its army and eventually brought about complete destruction of Napoleon’s army. During the invasion of Europe in World War II (Operation Overlord), as a political decision, the governments of the United States and Britain decided to keep “Strategic Air Command” outside the command of Eisenhower; the Supreme Commander of Operation Overlord. Eisenhower told them that in which case he would have to find someone else for command purposes.

As at Kargil, Pakistan had a distinct tactical advantage in its offensive at Chamb during 1965. Consequently, the Army Chief impressed upon the then Prime Minister the imperatives of wresting the initiative and opening another front against Pakistan across the international border and obtained his clearance for the same, though politically no one wanted a full-scale war. This was at a time when Pakistan enjoyed marked superiority in armour (qualitatively and quantitatively), and our edge in infantry and artillery was only marginal. In a span of just two weeks India was able to bring about the destruction of Pakistan’s armour and much else.
In 197,1 the political compulsions and the policy demand was to march into East Pakistan in May-June to relieve the unbearable pressure of influx of millions of refugees. The strategic military compulsions were quite different. The Army Chief had become the subject of a malicious whispering campaign. When the then Prime Minister told him that she was under great pressure from her Cabinet to march the Army into East Pakistan, Manekshaw told her that he could resign if that would help her. She had to then orchestrate diplomatic moves to gain international support, etc.

Weigh this against the meeting on May 18, 1999, where the Service Chiefs meekly accepted the orders from the PS to the Prime Minister (not the Prime Minister) without a whimper, detailing the defence forces not to use air power and permitting “hot-pursuit” of the enemy, only in the area of the ingress! Thus driving troops into suicidal frontal attacks up those impossible heights and slopes over a terrain where fire support was so much less effective.
It was left to a Pakistani brigadier to spell out through a newspaper article the course the Indian Army should have adopted rather than bash its head against the Kargil heights and suffer avoidable heavy casualties, thus discrediting generalship. In times of war the top military leader bears an enormous responsibility both to the nation and his army. He must fearlessly and forcefully advice the government on strategic military compulsions, and where he fails to carry his point he must act according to his own light and conscience.

Kargil Divas at Thiruvanantha puram.

[Attachment(s) from madhuraj prasad included below]
The photographs received with this email can be seen on the following weblogs –



Dear veterans,
Kargil Divas was celebrated in Trivandrum in a most befitting manner by IESM. There were several functions by different organizations. NCC, TA BN, Military Garrison, EXSM league and others had separate functions on the day. However maximum press coverage we were able to garner. Most prominent newspapers gave curtain raisers on 25th and 26th morning. Asianet channels in their global news Channel in Malayalam had a special panel discussion on 25th night news hour from 2100 hrs.

Panel Discussion.
Sr journalist Mr. Harshan was the moderator and other panelists were Lt Gen Thomas Mathew, PVSM(Retd) ,Mr Manoj Das Sr journalist and war correspondent who had covered the Kargil war, and Col RG Nair, State Convener IESM. The first question asked was about the sacrifices made by troops during Kargil War and the improvements made since then. Col RG highlighted the supreme sacrifices made by troops and the highest officer to man casualties in the war probably a world record (43 officer&JCOs and 475 killed. 126 Officers & JCOs and1085 ORs wounded.). The General stated that border management has improved, 6th pay commission has given sizeable improvements and accommodation problems have been solved. Mr Manoj Das did not agree with him and pointed out the short comings in weapon procurement and the unfinished recommendations of the Kargil Committee. Col RG only partially agreed with him and asked if all is well why the Army is having a shortage of 13000 officers? He pointed out the even students of sainik schools and RIMC are not opting for a career in the forces. Further the failures in procurement whether it is for the Army or IAF or for Navy is for all to see and an open matter. He also high lighted the fact that Govt has adopted an antagonistic stand against veterans by filing a review petition in Supreme court when they lost the case against refund of illegally retained sums of money out of IVth Pay Commission awards and the resultant loss of status of Armed Forces. He also drew a parellel with the quotes of Mr. Obama on 10 Jul 2010 "America will always be here for our veterans, just as they have been there for us. We won't let them down. We take care of our own. And as long as I am Commander- in- Chief , that is what we are going to keep doing" .The discussion lasted for about 15 minutes. One more step towards our aim of sensitizing the public about our cause has been achieved.

Homage to Martyrs.
In the evening at the Ist WW memorial in the city an august gathering paid homage. The Chief Guest was Sri K.P.S Menon, former foreign Secretary and the guests of honour were Lt Gen SK Pillai, PVSM and Sri T.P Sreenivasan former Ambassador to UN and presently member of National Security Advisory Board, and Sri S, Balachandran, CMD State Bank of Travancore. The function started with a Sarva Dharma prayer for the martyrs followed by last post. Wreaths were placed by veterans from all the districts of the state.Floral tributes were made by veterans, ladies and many civilians who had gathered. Notices about our cause was distributed to the public. As dusk fell candles were lit by those present.We got wide press coverage the on 27th. The local TV channels also telecast the event. Few photos of the event are attached along with this.

with best wishes Col RPG

Kargil Divas at Shahid Samarak ..Noida by Cdr Sharan Ahuja

From: Cdr Sharan Ahuja
Date: Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:37 PM
Subject: Kargil Diwas Celebrations at Noida 26 Jul 2010
To: CS Kamboj
Cc: CS Kamboj


Dear Brig Kamboj Sir,


The Kargil Diwas was once again celecbrated with the same josh and enthusiasm as last year at Shahid Samarak in front of the Army Public School Noida today morning from 1100 Hrs to 1300 Hrs.


A few hundred Veterans of yester years started gathering at the Venue from 1030 AM onwards which included Lt Gen Kala fromer Army Commander from Dehra Dun / Lt Gen Guru Bakshi / Maj Gen Inderjit kashyap / Mag Gen M Bhatia / Maj Gen Sushil Nath / Maj Gen S Bindra/ Maj Gen RN Wadhera / Maj Gen Gurdip Singh / Maj Gen KP Deswal / Maj Gen VS Dhania / Maj Gen Pramod Kapur / Brig Mahalingam / Hony Capt Pande / WO Balakrishnan and many more including the Governing Body members of Maj Gen Satbir Singh /Maj Gen AJB Jaini / Gp Capt VK Gandhi / Col RP Chaturvedi / Col Kirit Joshipura / Wg Cdr CK Sharma and Cdr Sharan Ahuja.


The celebrations started 1115 hrs where in the choir from APJ School Noida including young children sang the valour songs making a tear appear in the eyes of many a veteran making the occasion solemn as intended to be to remember the brave sons of this great nation.The sky was rented with Jai Hinds under the able guidance of Gen Jaini.


The gathered veterans after paying the homage in a orderly manner at the Shahid Samarak which was manned by the school children Nehru International Public School Sec 12 , Noida got together under the Shamiana to have the delicious samosas and Gulab Jamun with chilled Limca to quench the thirst.


The solemn occasion was also used to do Prize distribution to the 3 younsters for the painting competion Nehru International Public School . The prizes were given by Gen Kala / Gen Guru Bakshi and Gen Satbir. These children are bound to remember this prize throughout their lives.

Some of the Pictures taken are attached...

(The pictures are available at the websites of “Report My Signal – Blog”, “Sanjha Morch Blog” and IESM website. Not attached with this email due to technical problem – Chander Kamboj)
Regards

Cdr Sharan Ahuja

09811078735

Pls see IESM latest NEWS on http://www.iesm.org