Thursday, April 16, 2009

Rejoinder to Brig BM Kapoor's views on IESM

Dear Friends,

Jai Hind.

Some of the emails received from members are reproduced below.
On behalf of YOU ALL, 'i' thank all the members who have sent these emails to us.
The pending emails numbers with me is now over 900; I am sorry if your email is one of those 900.

I am not getting time even to process and forward to you the photographs taken by me during the IESM rally on 12 Apr 09.

Secondly - Regarding the IESM Directive for Voting for the Lok Sabha Election.
Some of the members have been sending emails saying that IESM should not have issued an advisory for voting in favour of BJP or its allies, but all most all of them have failed to give any constructive advice as to what should have been done by IESM, when ESM from village after village were asking a directive as to what should they do when voting for the forthcoming elections for the Lok Sabha.
It is very easy to criticise what others do - giving a workable suggestion/ alternative is not that easy. Most of the veterans who are sending the emails criticising the IESM Advisory are taking the easy course only.
While all most all the PBOR have highly appreciated the advisory issued IESM about Lok Sabha elections, it is some of the veteran officers who continue to harp on 'we should remain apolitical'.
The reason for this point of difference between some officers and all the PBOR is very simple - the officer cadre is least affected by the misdeeds of 6 CPC.
It is the PBOR who are the worst affected. The PBOR want a definite advice that can give them some hope of justice.
I often meet officers in Noida who say "Oh Chhado yar - kuch nahin hona. Oh kafi chhangi pension aandi hai. Hor ki chaida he tanoo". (Forget friend. Nothing will happen. We are getting good pension, what else you want)
It is such self-centered officers who are the main cause of all our troubles.
I get about 15 to 20 telephone calls a day - which are almost 100 percent from officers; the duration of these calls ranges from 5 minutes to 20 minutes each.
Most of the calls pertain to Lt Cols being granted PB4 status, some pertain to " I have not received correct arrears amount what should I do?"
Not one of these callers ever asked or knows how badly are the PBOR affected by 6 CPC. What a shame? Those of you who talk of Military ethos - was this the ethos in Services that we only bother about our own self and forget the Jawans?
You should either give positive suggestions what IESM should have done when PBOR were asking about voting advisory on Lok Sabha elections or do not repeat those dogmatic views about being apolitical. It is these dogmatic views which have landed the Defence Services, in particular the ESM, in this pathetic condition.
Yes, we must maintain the basic ethos of the Defence Services and must remain disciplined but do not remain "Lakir ke Fakir".

We must adapt to the changing times and changing situations.
Unless we learn to use the power of politics - we can keep crying for justice - no one will give it to us.
Some of you are wrongly accusing IESM for having invited Shree LK Advani to Jantar Mantar. It is Shree Advani who sent a request to visit Jantar Mantar and meet the ESM present there. What did you expect IESM should have done? Should we have said "No Mr Advani you cannot meet ESM?"
Yes before Mr Advani visited Jantar Mantar, IESM leaders were invited to the BJP office, which was refused by IESM. So please do not pass comments when you do not know facts; and facts you cannot know by sitting at your home - come out and attend IESM rallies, visit the ESM in villages to know what they want.
The ESM in villages are not interested in your and my emails; they want justice. Your emails and dogmatic views cannot fetch justice for them.
On 12 Apr 09, Shree VK Malhotra and few other BJP leaders came to Jantar Mantar while the IESM rally was on. They were categorically denied permission to come on to the stage or even in front of the stage. I am a witness to it.
Another observation I have about the officers who are not happy about the IESM advisory regarding the voting for Lok Sabha - most of them never attended a single IESM rally (there are few exceptions) and have never interacted with PBOR; a few of them not even bothered to become members of IESM. Then what knowledge or right those ESM have to comment on the advisory issued by IESM?
My humble appeal to all those who are not happy with the IESM advisory on Lok Sabha elections is -
SIRs you have said enough against the advisory issued, but now please support IESM in its efforts.

In Service of Indian Military Veterans
Chander Kamboj.

----- Original Message -----
To: CS Kamboj
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM

Dear Chander,

It seems that my mail was sent by you only selectively to some addressees.

Please be kind to send my mail and its rejoinders(given below) to all veterans.

Brig B M Kapoor

----- Original Message -----
To: CS Kamboj
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 5:27 PM
Subject: The Transformation of IESM


Dear Veterans,

The IESM has grown from strear Chander,ngth to strength in a very short period. Its continued protests at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi have drawn
members from far and wide. The IESM objectives were indeed laudable, though one could question its strategies. It had resolved to remain apolitical in the hallowed traditions of the Defence Services.

While in service, we remain totally apolitical, whereas the ex-servicemen in their individual capacities are of course free to exercise their choice. However, with the recent advisory by the Chairman IESM for the members to vote for a particular political party in the General Elections, the fine ethos of the Services has been severely damaged. By aligning an organization like IESM with a political party, its top management has put it the risk of making it a tool in the hands of the party.

There being an organization like the IESL already in existence, it was indeed questionable as to why another organization was being floated and registered as it would only fragment our strength. It makes us wonder now whether there was a political or a personal agenda all along. The large outlay of the IESM funds on rallies and tours has been grossly inappropriate.

I feel that the advisory for members to vote in a particular way is most uncalled for. I suggest the following actions:

a) The Chairman IESM must withdraw the voting advisory issued by him.
b) The IESM should be disbanded now that it has achieved its aim of getting its protests registered.

Brig B M Kapoor

From: CS Kamboj
Date: Monday, April 13, 2009 11:08 pm
Subject: Re: The Transformation of IESM
13 Apr 09.
Dear Brig Kapoor,
Reference your email below.

We are a democratic country. You and every one else is free to have his/ her own views. However, I am constraint to say that what you have said in your email below is a dogmatic view. It is the dogmatic views of the Indian Defence Forces in the past that we reached such poor state of the welfare of the serving and retired Defence Personnel.

We must learn to move with the times or learn to lump nonsense which we have been getting in our service so far. The younger generation of the Defence Services while continues to be disciplined and follows the ethos of Services, it is not used to accepting nonsense.

If you know any other way of achieving what we the Indian Military Veterans want, then please let us know what is that way; just saying we should not support a particular party is no solution. We want a solution - please give us your solution - still better would be for you to come forward and lead the way. Criticising others is very easy.

Can you please accept this challenge?

With regards as ever before.
Chander Kamboj.

From: CK Sharma
Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 12:22 am
Subject: Your Advisory on IESM ASdvisory
To: BM Kapoor

Dear Kapoor,
It is so very nice to see that you have not forgotten the art of wagging your finger and, in a most admonishing tone, tell others how wrong they are! Bravo!

How about standing up and being counted? Do YOU have the courage to even give a vague outline of what YOU think should have been done and what should be done? Will you kindly quantify it as precisely as your school-teacher-like attitude permits you to do?

Don't just sit there in a sanctimonious manner and lecture -- put your noble thoughts down clearly for others to be able to follow and emulate the higher
moral path that you may enunciate, will you?

As active servicemen, we were enjoined to remain apolitical -- for a very sensible and logical reason: our job, for which wqe had donned the uniform,
was to protect our borders and repel any adventurous forces trying to invade us. Obviously, this aim and focus would continue to be the same, regardless
of what dispensation was available in the centre as the then Government. What makes you recommend that now that we are no more in uniform, we must continue to be spineless enough to permit anyone and everyone to run roughshod over us?

Did you read the full statement by the Chairman of IESM? He has said very unequivocally that we shall go with BJP this time, since the Congress
has already, in December 2008, informed the nation, and us, that the very correct demand of One-Rank-One-Length-of-Service-One-Pension is NOT

Your assumption that you can see things better than anyone else is rather presumptuous! We, Sir, are just as capable of clear thinking as anyone else!
If the BJP does not do anything, well, why? We shall use the same tool with which we hope to help them come to power against them! We are not tied to
the apron strings of BJP by the advisory issued!! We have ONLY THE ONR AIM: To ensure that the Indian Ex Servicemen are given an equitable and just
pension that they have EARNED!

Wake up and smell the coffee, won't you?

PS: If and when our demand of OROP comes through, please do clearly indicate which charity will you be giving away all the 'filthy lucre' that comes your way?

PPS: Are YOU a Congress mole/ sympathiser? Also known by the alias of
Warm Regards!
CK Sharma

From: Rakesh Prasad Chaturvedi
Date: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 7:52 am
Subject: Your advise on the Advisory
To: BM Kapoor
Dear Brig Kapoor,
I have seen your mail about the voting advisory issued by chairman IESM. To recall, the latter spoke about IESM advise to vote BJP to power. Some ten
exceptions BY NAME of ESM from parties wholly registered by ex servicemen, were also mentioned in the ibid advisory.

You have a view and I respect it. It is an emotional response, conditioned by years of our service in uniform. Many of us initially felt the same way, but on analyzing it, feel the Chairman IESM has done well to furthur the interests of ESM, by offering the advisory that he has given. While a full fledged debate on it is likely on net, I just wish to make a couple of points.

- History is replete with examples of issue based alliances, where organizational interest calls for 'hard decisions'. These have invariably
borne favorable results.
- "Apolitical" was an operational requirement while in service. One could not, not respond operationally, just because the government in office was
one you did not support.Post retirement, we don't have the same working constraint/ environment and hence the liberty.
- Apolitical perhaps is a wrong term in the current scenario. Perhaps 'non aligned' would better describe the nature of IESM. Means we take issue based decisions on approach to be adopted.
- It has taken 60 years for us to come to this state of affairs. Please dont forget this includes 51 odd years of congress governance, where a couple of times there has been talk of 'disbanding ' the defence forces !!! And each time, we have had external reminders that such decisions were not practical/ desirable/ sensible.
- BJP manifesto on the other hand, includes issues of national security on their horizon. It also includes OROP, which IS our cause.
- Lastly, your point on IESM functioning. While Ends justify Means, we are committed to a disciplined, organized and responsible manner of taking our cause forward. IESL was indeed existing when our movement started, and we indeed WENT to them to take up a leadership role in taking the ESM cause forward. It is only when they refused/ expressed inability to get on, did we commence a persevering journey that has taken us where we are today. As you acknowledge, we have come a long way. IESL had its chance to DO something other than the measures that have neither got us critically needed improvements, but unfortunately it did not work out. I wont get into a 'blame game' but would urge you to see that in a democratic society as ours, we need to repect the aspirations of the 'aam aadmi'. At soldier sailor and airman level, discontent is high on issues being spoken about. We need to support their expectations. IESM is doing it, by a methodology that factors in a lot more than our personal bias/ past loyalties. AND definitely, self interest is NOT a factor.

I urge you to seriously consider the above. Come join us. We can do things together. And better.
With Warm Regards,
Col RP Chaturvedi,
A-35, Sector 36,
Noida 201303.
Mob: +919891279035

From: CS Kamboj
Subject: [Stg_Comm] Fw: The Transformation of IESM

Date: Monday, 13 April, 2009, 10:54 PM

Reference email below. For information of the Steering Committee.
Chander Kamboj

----- Original Message -----
From: satbir singh
Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:28 pm
Subject: Re: [Stg_Comm] Fw: The Transformation of IESM

Dated: 15 Apr 2009

My Dear Brig BM Kapoor,
1. I respect your sentiments. Everyone has right to his views.
Having said that, I would like to request you to kindly respect the majority view on an issue which concerns a large number of people.
IESM was born to function as an Umbrella Organisation for all ESM of India and fight against the injustice done to the Defence Forces.

2. One of the demand which affects all ESM is OROP. The relay hunger strike at Jantar Mantar was planned and executed for 118 days
to get OROP since all other democratic and disciplined means had failed to bring any result.

3. Cong has not accepted our demand and has not included it in its manifesto for the Lok Sabha Election. Defence Personnel therefore,
cannot expect any justice from the Congress Party. The down gradation, degradation and mistreatment of Defence Forces are primarily due to the anti defence policies of the congress which has been ruling the country for 52 years out of 62 years since independence. The BJP in its 6 years of rule also did not do much to
reverse the trend. However, it is the BJP out of the Major National Parties which has included implementation of OROP and other beneficial schemes in its manifesto. After analyzing all aspects and keeping in view the interest of Defence Personnel, the IESM has issued the Advisory to Vote and Support BJP in the coming Lok Sabha Election. The IESM is not aligning with the BJP but suggesting the best option at this point of time to showcase the “power of our vote”. Incase BJP comes to power and does not fulfill its promises, the ESM will launch extensive protest Movement against them.

4. I am once again enclosing the Short Brief of IESM. You will notice that IESM has an important duty and role to play as an Umbrella organisation of all ESM of India. I would request you not to compare it with IESL. You very well know the ineffectiveness of IESL in getting the due Justice to the Defence Forces. The birth of IESM took place because IESL had failed to get the due justice to the Defence Forces. So there is no question of IESM to close down. I would
request you to reconsider your views.
5. There is a lot which we ESM can do, to not only strengthen the Movement but also increase its membership to cover the maximum ESM of the country. Let us all work towards the Advisory given for the Lok Sabha Election and ensure Victory for the BJP. The victory of BJP will be the victory of ESM of India. Let this opportunity not be wasted. Let us all join hands for its success.
With regards,
Jai Hind
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM
Vice Chairman Indian ESM Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-4110570
From: pravesh renjen

Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:04 PM
Subject: RE: IESM Movement

Dear Maj SR Singh,

We are grateful for your sentiments but, please do not make us bigger than we really are! Our only desire is to do what we can to get justice for our brothers who may be 'in' and 'out' of uniform. Our judgements can be wrong at times. For instance a large number of ESM feel that the IESM should;

a) Not indulge in public protests; strikes, rallies, marches etc.

b) Not deposit medals with the President in protest. (Please note that we are NOT returning our medals but only depositing these until our demands are met. Once they are met, we shall take back our medals. After all no one can take away the honour bestowed on us for valour and service. We have also told that to the President and other leaders in our Memorandum, as also explained this in our Press briefs and interviews with the media.)

c) Not involve ourselves in politics; supporting an Ex Servicemen Political Party (Rashtriya Raksha Dal) and its ESM candidates, encouraging Mr Advani to address us at Jantar Mantar, issuing an advisory on voting choice to all ESM (which we did on the rally of 12 Apr) etc.

Who is to say whether we are right in our decisions or those who express above opinions?? What will be the short & long term implications of our decisions?? Only history will tell. But we, in the IESM Steering Committee, believe in our decisions, which are taken with great deliberation, debate and noisy disagreements within the Committee before we arrive at a final majority decision. We can only hope that these decisions will survive the test of time and history and will prove beneficial to our serving and retired soldiers, and more importantly to our national security and integrity.

Maj Gen (Retd) PK Renjen, AVSM
Ph: 9810044542
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 20:44:59 -0700
Subject: IESM Movement
CC:;;; ;;

Dear Sir (Brig BM Kapoor, Noida),

I as a veteran am pained to go through your missive and view point. Your view point really demotivates us. Sir, do you know that when Gen Satbir and Gen Rengen visited Varanasi -ex service were crying. One of them had a photograph of Gen Kadyan and worships him as his God. Sir, I know Gen Kadyan for last 20 years and have no hesitation to say that 'he can do no wrong'.

I think this is the first time that we ESMs have found these leaders who are really giving their everything for us. Sir, it is very convenient to comment and air view point from our dressing rooms which sounds very apt and correct politically.

Sir, it may not be received well by many but let me announce that Gen Kadyan and his core team has attained iconic status and any remarks aimed towards them hurts us. They are now house hold name in ESMs family and influence circle. Please do whatever you feel like but please do not humiliate us by advising our icons.

With best wishes and regards.

Maj SR Singh
From: v mahalingam
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 1:20 PM
Subject: RE: Protecting India from Terror

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your mail. Kindly go through pages 5 and 6 and compare the role of Armed Forces in page 14. The Congress Party perhaps feels that what is happening in J&K and Assam are not acts of terrorism. What does the Congress Party wish to do to enhance the capabilities of the Armed Forces fighting in these two specific areas? Why not specify those aspects as clearly as what has been stated in the case of Police Forces?

Isn't it a failure of the Government in not being able to carryout Police Reforms? Is it incorrect for the voter to assume that the Government which he has voted to power will provide the best in terms of Security to protect lives and properties in the country? Is it asking for too much?

Does any one assume that the measures suggested by the Congress will improve the professionalism in the Police Forces? We need a Professional and an efficient Police Force but the approach aims at increasing the numbers without improving their professionalism. The State Police Forces and the Central Police Organisations unfortunately lack training, leadership, motivation and suitable equipment which are very essential to fight terrorism. Please study the case regarding loss of Armoury to the Naxals by the State Police Forces at Nayagarh (Orissa) and the ambush of the Special Operations Group (SOG) at Malkangiri district. Have you ever come across such incidents with the Army even in places like J&K or Srilankha? Please ponder over the reasons which should throw some light on the issue. To my mind, it is not very easy to inculcate these qualities in a force until and unless their very basic ethos are changed. I had written a paper on Police Reforms to the then Home Minister and to Mr P Chidambaram during the last calender year which elaborates these issues. This paper must be available in the Home Ministry as the then Home Minister had acknowledged my paper.

Please remember that numbers cannot replace quality in the matter of fighting terorism. Calling a group of security personnel by fancy terminologies such as Grey hounds, Commandos etc do not make them a commando force. Also, the concept "once a commando ever a commando" needs to get out of the minds of the planners. NSG hubs all around the country may not be the solution. What happens if the terror strikes are shifted to our B Class cities? Why aren't the Special Rangers Groups (SRGs) of the NSG not as effective as the Special Action Groups (SAGs) of the NSG? Can you discern the reason? An elite foce has to be small. Please go through the size, organisations and training aspects of the Special Forces of the countries like USA (Delta Force), Germany (GSG 9 ), UK (SAS), Israel(Shariad Madkal). These aspects should throw some light on the subject.

Please be assured that whatever I am writing is in the interest of the country. I have no personal interest or other interest in the matter.


Brigadier V Mahalingam
Ex Force Commander NSG (Black Cat Commandos)
Subject: RE: Protecting India from Terror
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:50:26 +0530

It is not correct to say that Congress has not given any regard to role of Defence Forces in fighting terrorism. On Page 14 the role of the Armed Forces is precisely spelt out. There can be no contesting the fact that primary responsibility in fighting terrorism is of the police forces - of course police reforms are long long overdue as we all know but political will is lacking on this count as politicos of all hues, BJP, Congress, SP, BSP etc, zealously guard their control of police functioning and do not want a professional approach to policing as it would curb their extra legal activities.

I hope Brig Mahalingam would send a correction on this count to all those who may have received this incorrect information.

Sarvadaman Oberoi
Tower 1 Flat 1102, The Uniworld Garden,
Sohna Road, Gurgaon 122018 Haryana INDIA
Mobile: +919818768349 Tele: +911244227522

Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:48:58 +0530
Subject: Protecting India from Terror

Hi All,( Courtesy Brig V Mahalingam)

Kindly go through the Congress Party's paper on it pledge to terrorism. Click on the English version to read the paper. While the Party talks about the Police, no word about the Defence forces have been mentioned. Perhaps the Party thinks that the Defence Forces have been wasting their time and effort all these days fighting terrorism in all parts of the country.

Good Luck to the country and to the congress Party's efforts to combat terrorism exclusively with the Police Forces.


Brigadier V Mahalingam

Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:33:42 +0000
Subject: Protecting India from Terror
Dear Friend,
I wanted to share with you a document that summarizes the Congress Party's approach to fighting terrorism - what we have done so far and what we commit to doing further to tackle it.
"The Congress Party's Pledge: Protecting India from Terror"
The Congress led UPA government has instituted a number of measures to protect India from terror, many of which have been drowned under the din of opposition rhetoric. Some of these include:
Setting up a functional National Investigation Agency
Establishing and activating a Multi Agency Centre (MAC) to ensure inter-agency collaboration
Enacting a stronger Anti-Terrorism Law
Setting up 20 Counter Insurgency and Anti-Terrorism Schools
Establishing a network of NSG Hubs across the country
Phased Implementation of a Multi-Purpose National Identity Card (MNIC) for all Indian citizens
In addition, we will institute a number of addition initiatives if we are voted to power:
Launching a Citizens Campaign against terror
Undertaking a comprehensive Review of VIP/VVIP Security
Setting up a permanent Crisis Management "War Room" to manage national security threats
A Judicial Task Force on Fast-track Trials
Fighting terror is a long haul, and a number of high-impact measures that we have instituted will begin to bear fruit in the coming months and years.
Nevertheless, we cannot waste even a day - the Congress Party is alive to this challenge, and is committed to providing strong and decisive leadership to meet it. This is our pledge to the people of India.
We believe that it is only the Indian National Congress that can deal with the scourge of terrorism squarely and decisively but without weakening the delicate strands that have, together, bound our society for centuries.
Please feel free to share this document with others, in order to generate informed discussion and decision making.
I welcome the opportunity to receive your thoughts.
Best Regards,
Jairam Ramesh
Coordinator, Election Related Affairs,
Lok Sabha Elections 2009, Indian National Congress
From: Krishan K Punchhi
Cc: "Chander Kamboj"
Date: Thursday, 16 April, 2009, 3:02 AM
From The Tribune Chandigarh of 16 April 2009.
Shabaash Subhash.

regards..... .....K K Punchhi
(Cdr KK Punchhi, 7 JSW Course, settled in Canada)

The Tribune
Thursday, April 16, 2009, Chandigarh, India
Veterans’ protest
It is true that the defence forces have their conduct rules and are known to those who intend to join the services (Letters to the Editor, “Veterans’ agitation” by Neeraj Kishore Sharma, April 7). But does it mean that the armed forces have to be mute spectators to their continuous degradation in status and pay vis-a-vis other government employees as has been happening in India over the past decades? The Sixth Pay Commission was the proverbial last straw on the camel’s back.
Serving in defence forces may not be mandatory but so is the case in other departments of the government. If the civilian employees can indulge in agitations on flimsy grounds, why can’t the retired defence personnel take recourse to peaceful protests to highlight the injustice and humiliation being routinely heaped on them? Are they bonded slaves or lumpen elements to be shooed and snubbed at will?
“One rank, one pension”, the main demand of the veterans, is a sensitive issue because of the specific ethos of the defence personnel and the very early age at which most of them are edged out and made to retire as compared to the civilians.
Frankly, a nation that ignores and insults its soldiers, sooner or later comes to grief. Do we want this to happen to India?
WG-CDR S C KAPOOR (retd), Noida
From: Deepak Verma
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 12:31 PM
Subject: Defending India: No Compromise, No Concession-N S Malik-16 April 2009

(Group Capt Deepak Verma, New Delhi)

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