Membership as on date approximately nine lakhs with 27 lakhs beneficiaries. Approx 40% of eligible pensioners have become members.
Medical Treatment to ex-servicemen who have not joined ECHS. Veterans who have not joined the ECHS will continue to be treated in service hospitals subject to availability of beds and facilities. Veterans are not entitled to transfer/ referral from one service hospital to another and also treatment in empanelled hospitals.
Last Date for Veterans to Subscribe to the ECHS System was 31 Mar 2008. If you have not subscribed by then, you have lost your privilege of medical cover from the Armed Forces.
ECHS Newsletter
Teething Problems Galore
Posted: 2009-04-11 by G.K. EBRAHIM
Non-effectiveness.....
Sir,
Ex-Servicemen Contributory Health Scheme is seen non-effective for most of the members because of following reasons:
1. Referral by the concerned Poly Clinic is necessary. Those who are staying about 20 to 50 km away from registered Poly Clinic, will never travel so long to treat their illness; especially specilized medical services are available at their door steps.
2. With experience, the Poly Clinic(s) and/or even service hospitals are seen quite incompetant to treat even the minor illness properly and satisfactorily inview of today's highly sophiscated facilities and medicines available at every corner of our country. As such, people are quite hesitant to approach any polyclinics or service hospitals to get their illness treated.
3. The patients have the right to get treatment to his full satisfaction. They will look into ECHS only if their cases are immediately transferred to hospitals of their choice and not just service hospitals or any other facilities as per the will and wish of PolyClinics/ or as per the direction by ECHS rulings. Nobody will waste their time behind such an awful arrangement.
4. Ex-servicemen residing byond 5 or 10 Kms away from the registered Poly Clinics, must be allowed to attend directly at nearest empaneled hospitals without any referral by Poly Clinics or without any kind of indulgence by service hospitals.
5. Those who knows where they can get specialized treatment for their illness must be allowed to attend those hospitals without any consent by any Poly Clinics or Service Hospitals under the ECHS facility.
Until and unless, these problems are solved, ECHS facility is quite ineffective. Many Ex-Servicemen are seen ignoring this facility even though they are members of ECHS.
Posted: 2009-04-25 by Sunil Devendra Gondkar
Refusal of Medical Treatment at Mumbai Upnagar
I Ex-Sgt Sunil D. Gondkar is suffering from Diabetes Mallitus, Hypertension CAD and Osteo-Arthritis in both the knees, since last 10 years. I am undergoing mediacal attention at ECHS Mumbai – Upnagar naval Hospital, Powai.since 28.01.2008. However, as usual on 23.03.09, I approached the said hospital for monthly review. To my utter shock, Mr. S.P Dhyani LT. Commander (Retd.) Officer I/c Mumbai Upnagar Powai. He cited that INS Ashwini is my parent unit and I should approach INS Ashwini. I clarified to Mr. S.P. Dhyani that as I am residing in Thane as evident from the details of my Smart Card I am supposed to get treatment from ECHS Polyclinic Mumbai– Upnagar. But he bluntly refused to agree to render treatment.
Meanwhile, I Also approached Ashwini, where they clearly stated that since I am residing in Thane I am eligible for treatment at Mumbai- Upnagar till the time the incident of 23.03.09 as briefly above occurred.
The status as of now is, I am denied medical treatment and without medication I am experiencing serious problems related to my health. This trauma of uncerainity prevailing over my medical treatment is consistently bothering me. I fail to understand how can Mumbai-Upanagar stop rendering medical treatment given to me since 28.1.2008
Posted: 2009-03-02 by Jaaved
not functioning properly
sir,
im a son of ex service man living in Bareilly UP. here all the officials appointed by the government are not taking care of the people but they are adding up to their pains just because of the commision or whatever the reasons might be they are sending the patients to a hospital 15 km away out of city if a single test is to be done they refer to that hospital. there are many patients who do not live in bareilly. it is problem for them on top of it the operations that can be done in the mh bareilly they do not refer to mh doctors often specially when the patient need to admitted the bill of the private hospital has to be paid by the government than why not they can be treated in the mh. if this is what the government will do to the soldiers who have proudly worked for the nation and made it proud and after retirement in their days of rest when government need to serve it is not done. so why should they not restrict their children to join the defence. if any authority reading this please do something and save the soldiers pride and faith in the government or someone who could do anything just to save your soldiers
thanking you
Posted: 2009-02-17 by Shailesh Rai
Medicine Unavailability
Sir,
I am a retired defense personnel undergone kidney transplant and now I am a ECHS member drawing my transplant medicine from ECHS (Nerul) Navi Mumbai as the transplant medicines are costly, I have not been issued the same since last many months, as they are life saving medicine for me I had to procure same from civil which is difficult for me to afford, I just want to know why the medicines are not issued even when they are procured from regional centres. kindly help me out.
Posted: 2009-04-29 by Rajeshkumar Chauhan
required to be change process
"Sir,
My self Rajeshkumar Chauhan ECHS member,
Generally I observed that patients visiting the ECHC clinic face lot prob from ECHS clinic to further refer to MH, civil hosp & back to ECHS clinic.
My experience with ECHS Ahmedabad
Visited ECHS, checked and refer to MH for surgical SPL. Find Ambulance but not availabe as knew that under repair. I made local arrangement and reached MH. Checked Surgical Spl and advised to MRI. Again visited ECHS, made the necessary form and got signature. Further advised to go MH for Signature of Surgical Spl twice visited the MH & got signature. Same is to get medicine. As my request to concerned authority, is it possible for some changes in this process to avoid frequent visits. Moreover I expect that patient to be treated with sympathetic behaviour.
ECHS: Consumer Complaints
Sunday, May 31, 2009
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
League asks the ex-servicemen to gird up their loin for a long battle
From: prabhjot singh prabhjot_singh0@yahoo.com
Subject: Press Note
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 9:01 AM
League asks the ex-servicemen to gird up their loin for a long battle
Press Note
Patiala - 25 May. In its letter, dt 25-5-2009 faxed to Defence Minister, A.K. Antony, Indian Ex-services League, Punjab and Chandigarh, the oldest and a non-political body ex-servicemen , has thanked the Centre govt. for issuing the orders for assigning Pay –Band IV to Lt .Cols and equivalents in the other forces but reminded the Defense Minister that though the Centre govt. has done enough for the officer cadre, it can not shirk its responsibility towards the PBORs ( Personnel below the officer rank ) who count for 96 % of the total strength and in fact form the backbone of the Armed Forces of India.
The league has, categorically, demanded of Defence Minister that the Hav. and equivalents in other forces be placed in Pay Band PB-2 and Subedars and their equivalents in Pay Band PB-3 if the Govt. really wants the justice to be done to the PBORs. The league has further demanded that provision of two family pensions be made for the widow of the ex-serviceman who drew two pensions during his life time. A large no. ex-servicemen, primarily PBORs up to the rank Hav. and equivalent have to seek second employment in the civil after their retirement from defence service and thus they earn second pension in their civil service but the widows of such PBORs are entitled for only one family pension as per the rules in vogue. The league has also asked for assured promotion up to JCO rank in 15 years for PBORs as has been provisioned for officers. It has also demanded suitable re-employment for PBOR up to age of 60 years as in the case civil employees.
The League lamented that PBORs have been betrayed on both the fronts. While on one hand, the Sixth Pay Central Commission has not done the justice with PBORs while recommending the Pay –Band applicable to different ranks among the PBORs, on the other hand, the Senior Brass of the defense forces, who have been projecting themselves as their saviors, used them only for their own benefits and did not utter even a single word even after seeing the PBORs of the rank of Havildar in Pay –Band PB-I at par with the Class-IV employees and Subedar Major,the senior most rank among the PBORs, in Pay Band PB-II.
The league has sounded a clarion call to the PBORs , other like minded organizations and all well wishers of the ex-servicemen to gird up their loin and get ready for a long battle to get the injustice undone themselves because you can not breathe the air of heaven unless you die your-self. Even though, you stood firmly with big brothers, you can not be sure of their support when you need it now.
Sgt. Prabhjot Singh PLS(Retd.)
President,
Indian Ex-Services League, Punjab and Chandigarh
Mob. 98554-09128
---------------
Subject: Press Note
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 9:01 AM
League asks the ex-servicemen to gird up their loin for a long battle
Press Note
Patiala - 25 May. In its letter, dt 25-5-2009 faxed to Defence Minister, A.K. Antony, Indian Ex-services League, Punjab and Chandigarh, the oldest and a non-political body ex-servicemen , has thanked the Centre govt. for issuing the orders for assigning Pay –Band IV to Lt .Cols and equivalents in the other forces but reminded the Defense Minister that though the Centre govt. has done enough for the officer cadre, it can not shirk its responsibility towards the PBORs ( Personnel below the officer rank ) who count for 96 % of the total strength and in fact form the backbone of the Armed Forces of India.
The league has, categorically, demanded of Defence Minister that the Hav. and equivalents in other forces be placed in Pay Band PB-2 and Subedars and their equivalents in Pay Band PB-3 if the Govt. really wants the justice to be done to the PBORs. The league has further demanded that provision of two family pensions be made for the widow of the ex-serviceman who drew two pensions during his life time. A large no. ex-servicemen, primarily PBORs up to the rank Hav. and equivalent have to seek second employment in the civil after their retirement from defence service and thus they earn second pension in their civil service but the widows of such PBORs are entitled for only one family pension as per the rules in vogue. The league has also asked for assured promotion up to JCO rank in 15 years for PBORs as has been provisioned for officers. It has also demanded suitable re-employment for PBOR up to age of 60 years as in the case civil employees.
The League lamented that PBORs have been betrayed on both the fronts. While on one hand, the Sixth Pay Central Commission has not done the justice with PBORs while recommending the Pay –Band applicable to different ranks among the PBORs, on the other hand, the Senior Brass of the defense forces, who have been projecting themselves as their saviors, used them only for their own benefits and did not utter even a single word even after seeing the PBORs of the rank of Havildar in Pay –Band PB-I at par with the Class-IV employees and Subedar Major,the senior most rank among the PBORs, in Pay Band PB-II.
The league has sounded a clarion call to the PBORs , other like minded organizations and all well wishers of the ex-servicemen to gird up their loin and get ready for a long battle to get the injustice undone themselves because you can not breathe the air of heaven unless you die your-self. Even though, you stood firmly with big brothers, you can not be sure of their support when you need it now.
Sgt. Prabhjot Singh PLS(Retd.)
President,
Indian Ex-Services League, Punjab and Chandigarh
Mob. 98554-09128
---------------
LT COL'S PENSION AND HALF YEAR SLABS by Cdr KK Punchhi
From: Krishan K Punchhi kkpunchhi@yahoo.ca
Subject: LT COL'S PENSION AND HALF YEAR SLABS
To: "Chander Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED
Date: Saturday, 23 May, 2009, 5:16 PM
Dear Friends,
GoI orders are out on the subject of pension for pre - 2006 retired Lt Cols and equivalent.
Earlier on they used to talk in terms of full year, now it is in half year slabs. For the benefit of those who do not know about it, an extract from PCDA(P) website is appended below together with its URL info. Relevant portion has been made bold in red. Please note that your official QS is to bo found on your PPO and is given in 6 figures as YYMMDD.
Regards.........................K K Punchhi
http://pcdapension.nic.in/comm/qs.htm
Home
General Information
Know Your Pension
Common Problems
Pension Payment
Guidelines/Instructions
DPTI
Commissioned Officer | Home<< PreviousNext >>
Qualifying Service for Pension
The minimum period of qualifying service (without Weightage) for earning retiring pension shall be 20 years (15 years in the case of late entrants).
Actual qualifying service rendered by the officer plus a weightage (in years) appropriate to the last rank held as indicated below subject to total qualifying service including weightage not exceeding 33 Years.
A fraction of a year equal to 3 months and above but less than 6 months shall be treated as a completed ½ year. Similarly, nine months or more but less than one year shall be treated as a competed one year and reckoned as qualifying service.
This shall, however, not be applicable for completing minimum qualifying service for pensionary award.
Periods of Service Qualifying Service for Pension
1. Service as a permanent regular Commissioned Officer
2. Service rendered before attaining the age of 17 years.
3. Embodied or called out service as an officer of TA or Auxiliary Air Force subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
4. Service in the rank if followed by permanent regular Commissioned service without a break subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
5. All leave including study leave with pay.
6. Period of suspension from duty when the officer is not brought on trial or court martial with result favour-able to the officer.
7. Service under an Office /Department/Ministry of the Central or State Government.
8. Any period of Civil service under Central or State Government. if followed by military service subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
9. Service rendered in the autonomous bodies
10. The period of ante-date of commission and the period of Secondment subject to the following maxima:-
a. Ante-date of commission –18 months
b. Secondment -12 months
c. when both ante- date and Secondment granted – 24 months
11. Service rendered in aid of civil administration.
Weightage Admissible : Service Officers (Other than MNS)
Rank Weightage in Years
Lieutenant 9 years
Captain 9 Years
Major 8 Years
Lt. Col. (TS) 5 Years
Lt. Col. (S) 7 years
Colonel(TS) 7 years
Colonel 7 Years
Brigadier 5 Years
Major General 3 Years
Lt. General 3 Years
Chief of the Army Staff 3 Years
Weightage Admissible : MNS officers
Rank Weightage in Years
Captain 7 Years
Major 6Years
Lt. Colonel 5 Years
Colonel 5 Years
Brigadier 3 Years
Major General 3 Years
Weightage Admissible : ECOs/SSCO
Rank Weightage in Years
12 years and more but less than 20 years5 Years
20 years and above Rank wise weightage as given for Service Officers (Other than MNS)
Weightage Not Admissible
Weightage is not admissible in following cases:-
i. officers who retire pre-maturely for permanent absorption in public sector under takings and autonomous bodies.
ii. officers of the Territorial Army.
iii. for determining the minimum qualifying service for retiring pension.
Subject: LT COL'S PENSION AND HALF YEAR SLABS
To: "Chander Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED
Date: Saturday, 23 May, 2009, 5:16 PM
Dear Friends,
GoI orders are out on the subject of pension for pre - 2006 retired Lt Cols and equivalent.
Earlier on they used to talk in terms of full year, now it is in half year slabs. For the benefit of those who do not know about it, an extract from PCDA(P) website is appended below together with its URL info. Relevant portion has been made bold in red. Please note that your official QS is to bo found on your PPO and is given in 6 figures as YYMMDD.
Regards.........................K K Punchhi
http://pcdapension.nic.in/comm/qs.htm
Home
General Information
Know Your Pension
Common Problems
Pension Payment
Guidelines/Instructions
DPTI
Commissioned Officer | Home<< PreviousNext >>
Qualifying Service for Pension
The minimum period of qualifying service (without Weightage) for earning retiring pension shall be 20 years (15 years in the case of late entrants).
Actual qualifying service rendered by the officer plus a weightage (in years) appropriate to the last rank held as indicated below subject to total qualifying service including weightage not exceeding 33 Years.
A fraction of a year equal to 3 months and above but less than 6 months shall be treated as a completed ½ year. Similarly, nine months or more but less than one year shall be treated as a competed one year and reckoned as qualifying service.
This shall, however, not be applicable for completing minimum qualifying service for pensionary award.
Periods of Service Qualifying Service for Pension
1. Service as a permanent regular Commissioned Officer
2. Service rendered before attaining the age of 17 years.
3. Embodied or called out service as an officer of TA or Auxiliary Air Force subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
4. Service in the rank if followed by permanent regular Commissioned service without a break subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
5. All leave including study leave with pay.
6. Period of suspension from duty when the officer is not brought on trial or court martial with result favour-able to the officer.
7. Service under an Office /Department/Ministry of the Central or State Government.
8. Any period of Civil service under Central or State Government. if followed by military service subject to refund of gratuity, if any.
9. Service rendered in the autonomous bodies
10. The period of ante-date of commission and the period of Secondment subject to the following maxima:-
a. Ante-date of commission –18 months
b. Secondment -12 months
c. when both ante- date and Secondment granted – 24 months
11. Service rendered in aid of civil administration.
Weightage Admissible : Service Officers (Other than MNS)
Rank Weightage in Years
Lieutenant 9 years
Captain 9 Years
Major 8 Years
Lt. Col. (TS) 5 Years
Lt. Col. (S) 7 years
Colonel(TS) 7 years
Colonel 7 Years
Brigadier 5 Years
Major General 3 Years
Lt. General 3 Years
Chief of the Army Staff 3 Years
Weightage Admissible : MNS officers
Rank Weightage in Years
Captain 7 Years
Major 6Years
Lt. Colonel 5 Years
Colonel 5 Years
Brigadier 3 Years
Major General 3 Years
Weightage Admissible : ECOs/SSCO
Rank Weightage in Years
12 years and more but less than 20 years5 Years
20 years and above Rank wise weightage as given for Service Officers (Other than MNS)
Weightage Not Admissible
Weightage is not admissible in following cases:-
i. officers who retire pre-maturely for permanent absorption in public sector under takings and autonomous bodies.
ii. officers of the Territorial Army.
iii. for determining the minimum qualifying service for retiring pension.
Here Onwards by Brig RS Chhikara
From: chhikarars1940@yahoo.co.in chhikarars1940@yahoo.co.in
Subject: Here Onwards
To: "REPORT MY SIGNAL(CS Kamboj)" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in , "Lt Gen RS Kadyan" rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 6:05 PM
Dear Chander , Gen Kadyan and Satbir,
I have been shying away from congratulating and thanking you all since the election results were announced.
Needless to say; the advisory was well thought out and well articulated. Brooks no criticism on either count. We must keep our thoughts positive and constructive.
The IESM campaign so far has achieved not only a considerable degree of understanding and co-operation among the ESM community it has generated wide awareness of the problem and appreciation of the justness of the demand. It is necessary to build on this progress.
Every or any Government that comes to rule India is indeed our Government. The IESM and the serving soldier, sailor and airman are not anti Govt or anti any political party. We chose to recommend our vote for one coalition that promised the most fair resolution of the problem as a onetime measure. Our appreciation is similarly due to the Left Front parties not withstanding their inclinations towards larger issues of national security because of which our advisory did not extend to them. We also appreciate the personal views of those Congressmen and women who were highly sympathetic to our stand although they were not able to influence the policy decision of their government. There are many such voices in the Congress and other UPA parties.
The Sixth Pay Commission has indeed created a serious chasm between the soldier and the Government of the day. There is a serious loss of faith and a severe erosion of morale.
A healthy and satisfied defence establishment is a National imperative and not a matter of turf war between a section of politicians and bureaucracy on the one side and the soldier, both serving and retired, on the other. The nation can ill afford such a chasm and urgent steps need to be taken by all to set matters right. The IESM needs to do so as much as the newly installed government and the Bureaucracy.
In our widely held perception, much of the blame lies with the overzealous and overbearing bureaucracy. Perhaps the Political bosses have either been misled of misinformed and ill advised. Alternately, the bureaucrat rode rough shod over either the political figurehead or the political establishment themselves desired to put the military down. Personally, I discount the last proposition completely.
Nevertheless, The new political government can be expected to be much more confidant and self assured which fact enables them to resist bureaucratic arm twisting much more effectively. I believe that our battle is with the bureaucrat and not with the politician. Our best interest therefore demands a better Military- Politician relationship based on trust and National interest. This means repairing our relationship with the congress party based on shared national interest and mutual faith.
In the euphoria of victory the congress party can be expected to adopt either of the following lines of thought and action.
(a) A vindictive approach towards not only the IESM but also the serving chiefs. It is possible that the Babu lobby will like to egg the politician on to go right ahead and teach the military a lesson. This is the worst case scenario not just for us but even more so for the Nation. The inherent dangers associated with this approach need to be actively and effectively brought home to the politician. This thought needs to be articulated through multiple channels.
(b) A confident and sympathetic approach based on a belated understanding of the injustice caused by ill motivated and injudicious influences of the bureaucracy. In fact, the newly acquired sense of self confidence among the ruling political class can be steered to promote such an attitude where they can take credit for being magnanimous in victory while doing the right thing in National interest.
Our best instruments for achieving our objective in the current circumstances appear to be the following.
(a) Articles and letters in the media by eminent friends.
(b) IESM Congratulates the Congress for their decisive mandate.
(c) We must meet and brief maximum number of new MPs and ministers on the importance of taking bold positive steps to regain the trust of the Military and ESM.
(d) We must also and more importantly work our concerns through the serving chiefs.
(e). MPs in the opposition should also be constantly encouraged to list this relationship problem as one of the most urgent points on the new agenda of Govt.
Views submitted for whatever these are worth.
Brig RS Chhikara. Veteran
---------------
Subject: Here Onwards
To: "REPORT MY SIGNAL(CS Kamboj)" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in , "Lt Gen RS Kadyan" rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 6:05 PM
Dear Chander , Gen Kadyan and Satbir,
I have been shying away from congratulating and thanking you all since the election results were announced.
Needless to say; the advisory was well thought out and well articulated. Brooks no criticism on either count. We must keep our thoughts positive and constructive.
The IESM campaign so far has achieved not only a considerable degree of understanding and co-operation among the ESM community it has generated wide awareness of the problem and appreciation of the justness of the demand. It is necessary to build on this progress.
Every or any Government that comes to rule India is indeed our Government. The IESM and the serving soldier, sailor and airman are not anti Govt or anti any political party. We chose to recommend our vote for one coalition that promised the most fair resolution of the problem as a onetime measure. Our appreciation is similarly due to the Left Front parties not withstanding their inclinations towards larger issues of national security because of which our advisory did not extend to them. We also appreciate the personal views of those Congressmen and women who were highly sympathetic to our stand although they were not able to influence the policy decision of their government. There are many such voices in the Congress and other UPA parties.
The Sixth Pay Commission has indeed created a serious chasm between the soldier and the Government of the day. There is a serious loss of faith and a severe erosion of morale.
A healthy and satisfied defence establishment is a National imperative and not a matter of turf war between a section of politicians and bureaucracy on the one side and the soldier, both serving and retired, on the other. The nation can ill afford such a chasm and urgent steps need to be taken by all to set matters right. The IESM needs to do so as much as the newly installed government and the Bureaucracy.
In our widely held perception, much of the blame lies with the overzealous and overbearing bureaucracy. Perhaps the Political bosses have either been misled of misinformed and ill advised. Alternately, the bureaucrat rode rough shod over either the political figurehead or the political establishment themselves desired to put the military down. Personally, I discount the last proposition completely.
Nevertheless, The new political government can be expected to be much more confidant and self assured which fact enables them to resist bureaucratic arm twisting much more effectively. I believe that our battle is with the bureaucrat and not with the politician. Our best interest therefore demands a better Military- Politician relationship based on trust and National interest. This means repairing our relationship with the congress party based on shared national interest and mutual faith.
In the euphoria of victory the congress party can be expected to adopt either of the following lines of thought and action.
(a) A vindictive approach towards not only the IESM but also the serving chiefs. It is possible that the Babu lobby will like to egg the politician on to go right ahead and teach the military a lesson. This is the worst case scenario not just for us but even more so for the Nation. The inherent dangers associated with this approach need to be actively and effectively brought home to the politician. This thought needs to be articulated through multiple channels.
(b) A confident and sympathetic approach based on a belated understanding of the injustice caused by ill motivated and injudicious influences of the bureaucracy. In fact, the newly acquired sense of self confidence among the ruling political class can be steered to promote such an attitude where they can take credit for being magnanimous in victory while doing the right thing in National interest.
Our best instruments for achieving our objective in the current circumstances appear to be the following.
(a) Articles and letters in the media by eminent friends.
(b) IESM Congratulates the Congress for their decisive mandate.
(c) We must meet and brief maximum number of new MPs and ministers on the importance of taking bold positive steps to regain the trust of the Military and ESM.
(d) We must also and more importantly work our concerns through the serving chiefs.
(e). MPs in the opposition should also be constantly encouraged to list this relationship problem as one of the most urgent points on the new agenda of Govt.
Views submitted for whatever these are worth.
Brig RS Chhikara. Veteran
---------------
Monday, May 25, 2009
When Field Marshal Maneckshaw faced the Indian Cabinet
When Field Marshal Maneckshaw faced the Indian Cabinet
The Field Marshal quoted the Bible and offered to resign! There are many stories, some true and some apocryphal, about India's legendary soldier - Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw. It is common knowledge that India's military campaign in 1971 to liberate Bangladesh was delayed on professional military advice, against the wishes of the political class. It is delightful to revisit the anecdote in the words of the lead historian of the dramatis personae.. The Field Marshal narrated this incident as a personal example of moral courage, at theinaugural Field Marshal KM Cariappa Memorial Lecture in October 1995 at Delhi.
There is a very thin line between being dismissed and becoming a Field Marshal. In 1971, when Pakistan cracked down in East Pakistan, hundreds and thousands of refugees started pouring into India, into West Bengal, Assam and Tripura. The Prime Minister held a Cabinet meeting in her office. The External Affairs Minister Sardar Swaran Singh, the Agriculture Minister, Mr. Fakhruddin Ali Ahmad, the Defence Minister, Babu Jagjivan Ram and the Finance Minister, Yashwant Rao Chavan were present. I was then summoned.
A very angry, grim-faced Prime Minister read out the telegrams from the Chief Ministers of West Bengal, Assam and Tripura. She then turned around to me and said, "What are you doing about it?"
And I said, "Nothing, it's got nothing to do with me. You didn't consult me when you allowed the BSF, the CRP and RAW to encourage the Pakistanis to revolt. Now that you are in trouble, you come to me. I have a long nose. I know what's happening."
I then asked her what she wanted me to do. She said, "I want you to enter Pakistan."
And I responded, "That means war!"
She said, "I do not mind if it is war."
"Have you read the Bible?" I said.
The Foreign Minister, Sardar Swaran Singh asked, "What has Bible got to do with this?"
I explained, that the first book, the first chapter, the first words, the first sentence God said was, "Let there be light" and there was light. Now you say, "Let there be war" and there will be war, but are you prepared? I am certainly not. This is the end of April. The Himalayan passes are opening and there can be an attack from China if China gives us an ultimatum.
The Foreign Minister asked, "Will China give an ultimatum?" And I said, "You are the Foreign Minister, you tell me". I told them that my armoured division and two of my infantry divisions were away. One in the Jhansi/Babina area, the other in Samba and the third one in Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu... I mentioned that I will require all the road space, all the railway wagons, the entire railway system to move these formations to the operational areas and that harvesting was in progress in the Punjab and UP and they would not be able to move the harvest which would rot; and I pointed out to the Agriculture Minister that it wouldn't be my responsibility if there was a famine. Then I said, "My armoured division, which is my big striking force is supposed to have 189 tanks operational. I have got only 11 tanks that are fit to fight."
The Finance Minister, who is a friend of mine asked, "Sam why only 11?"
So I told him, "Because you are the Finance Minister. I have been asking you for money for over a year and you say you haven't got it!"
And finally I turned around to the Prime Minister and said that the rains were about to start in East Pakistan and when it rains there, it pours and when it pours, the whole countryside is flooded. The snows are melting, the rivers would become like oceans. If you stand on one bank, you can't see the other. All my movement would be confined to roads. The Air Force, because of climatic conditions would not be able to support me. Now Prime Minister, give me your orders.
The grim Prime Minister with her teeth clenched said, "The Cabinet will meet again at four o'clock".
The members of the Cabinet started walking out. I being the junior most was the last to go and as I was leaving, she said, "Chief, will you stay back?"
I turned around and said, "Prime Minister, before you open your mouth, may I send you my resignation on grounds of health, mental or physical?"
She said, "Every thing you told me is true".
"Yes! It is my job to tell you the truth" I responded, "and it is my job to fight, it is my job to fight to win and I have told you the truth."
She smiled at me and said, "All right Sam, you know what I want?"
I said, "Yes, I know what you want!"
[Field Marshal KM Cariappa Memorial Lectures 1995 -2000, Lancer Publishers & Distributors, Delhi, 2001]
Three cheers to the old soldier! The only regret - I wish all of us had compulsorily read this at school, among all the mythological and faux historical fables, as a living illustration of moral courage.
Not too late. Read it to your kids.
--
Ravi
# 23 Sector 37
Arun Vihar
Noida UP 201303
9891215510
The Field Marshal quoted the Bible and offered to resign! There are many stories, some true and some apocryphal, about India's legendary soldier - Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw. It is common knowledge that India's military campaign in 1971 to liberate Bangladesh was delayed on professional military advice, against the wishes of the political class. It is delightful to revisit the anecdote in the words of the lead historian of the dramatis personae.. The Field Marshal narrated this incident as a personal example of moral courage, at theinaugural Field Marshal KM Cariappa Memorial Lecture in October 1995 at Delhi.
There is a very thin line between being dismissed and becoming a Field Marshal. In 1971, when Pakistan cracked down in East Pakistan, hundreds and thousands of refugees started pouring into India, into West Bengal, Assam and Tripura. The Prime Minister held a Cabinet meeting in her office. The External Affairs Minister Sardar Swaran Singh, the Agriculture Minister, Mr. Fakhruddin Ali Ahmad, the Defence Minister, Babu Jagjivan Ram and the Finance Minister, Yashwant Rao Chavan were present. I was then summoned.
A very angry, grim-faced Prime Minister read out the telegrams from the Chief Ministers of West Bengal, Assam and Tripura. She then turned around to me and said, "What are you doing about it?"
And I said, "Nothing, it's got nothing to do with me. You didn't consult me when you allowed the BSF, the CRP and RAW to encourage the Pakistanis to revolt. Now that you are in trouble, you come to me. I have a long nose. I know what's happening."
I then asked her what she wanted me to do. She said, "I want you to enter Pakistan."
And I responded, "That means war!"
She said, "I do not mind if it is war."
"Have you read the Bible?" I said.
The Foreign Minister, Sardar Swaran Singh asked, "What has Bible got to do with this?"
I explained, that the first book, the first chapter, the first words, the first sentence God said was, "Let there be light" and there was light. Now you say, "Let there be war" and there will be war, but are you prepared? I am certainly not. This is the end of April. The Himalayan passes are opening and there can be an attack from China if China gives us an ultimatum.
The Foreign Minister asked, "Will China give an ultimatum?" And I said, "You are the Foreign Minister, you tell me". I told them that my armoured division and two of my infantry divisions were away. One in the Jhansi/Babina area, the other in Samba and the third one in Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu... I mentioned that I will require all the road space, all the railway wagons, the entire railway system to move these formations to the operational areas and that harvesting was in progress in the Punjab and UP and they would not be able to move the harvest which would rot; and I pointed out to the Agriculture Minister that it wouldn't be my responsibility if there was a famine. Then I said, "My armoured division, which is my big striking force is supposed to have 189 tanks operational. I have got only 11 tanks that are fit to fight."
The Finance Minister, who is a friend of mine asked, "Sam why only 11?"
So I told him, "Because you are the Finance Minister. I have been asking you for money for over a year and you say you haven't got it!"
And finally I turned around to the Prime Minister and said that the rains were about to start in East Pakistan and when it rains there, it pours and when it pours, the whole countryside is flooded. The snows are melting, the rivers would become like oceans. If you stand on one bank, you can't see the other. All my movement would be confined to roads. The Air Force, because of climatic conditions would not be able to support me. Now Prime Minister, give me your orders.
The grim Prime Minister with her teeth clenched said, "The Cabinet will meet again at four o'clock".
The members of the Cabinet started walking out. I being the junior most was the last to go and as I was leaving, she said, "Chief, will you stay back?"
I turned around and said, "Prime Minister, before you open your mouth, may I send you my resignation on grounds of health, mental or physical?"
She said, "Every thing you told me is true".
"Yes! It is my job to tell you the truth" I responded, "and it is my job to fight, it is my job to fight to win and I have told you the truth."
She smiled at me and said, "All right Sam, you know what I want?"
I said, "Yes, I know what you want!"
[Field Marshal KM Cariappa Memorial Lectures 1995 -2000, Lancer Publishers & Distributors, Delhi, 2001]
Three cheers to the old soldier! The only regret - I wish all of us had compulsorily read this at school, among all the mythological and faux historical fables, as a living illustration of moral courage.
Not too late. Read it to your kids.
--
Ravi
# 23 Sector 37
Arun Vihar
Noida UP 201303
9891215510
IESM Tamil Nadu meet on 28 Jun 2009 ..read below
Dear Members of IESM,
The msg from Vice Chairman, IESM, is in line. I request the District Conveners Tamilnadu, to extend full co operation to our Movement. You have been the Pillars in mobilising the members from Tamilnadu. Kindly continue the good work. Further, please send the names of ESM appointed by you to strengthen our net work, in Towns, Tehsils & Villages, so that they can be honoured.
It is proposed to hold a Meeting of IESM, Tamilnadu, on 28 June 09, (Sunday) at the Community Hall of AWHO Parameswaran Vihar, 28 Arcot Road, Saligramam, Chennai-600093. The Meeting will elect/ confirm the Office Bearers of the Association, from State to District & lower levels. I personally request the District Conveners to kindly attend the Meeting to put across their valuable suggestions.
Kindly send your points for inclusion in the Agenda, by 14 Jun 09. Detailed programme for the event will be sent by 21-06- 09.
Though the Meeting is convened on behalf of IESM, all ESM Associations are requested to take part. We will consider it as an honour if the principle Office Bearers of other ESM Associations attend the Meeting, for better inter action.
With Best Wishes,
Col (Retd) TN Raman
Convener IESM Tamilnadu
The msg from Vice Chairman, IESM, is in line. I request the District Conveners Tamilnadu, to extend full co operation to our Movement. You have been the Pillars in mobilising the members from Tamilnadu. Kindly continue the good work. Further, please send the names of ESM appointed by you to strengthen our net work, in Towns, Tehsils & Villages, so that they can be honoured.
It is proposed to hold a Meeting of IESM, Tamilnadu, on 28 June 09, (Sunday) at the Community Hall of AWHO Parameswaran Vihar, 28 Arcot Road, Saligramam, Chennai-600093. The Meeting will elect/ confirm the Office Bearers of the Association, from State to District & lower levels. I personally request the District Conveners to kindly attend the Meeting to put across their valuable suggestions.
Kindly send your points for inclusion in the Agenda, by 14 Jun 09. Detailed programme for the event will be sent by 21-06- 09.
Though the Meeting is convened on behalf of IESM, all ESM Associations are requested to take part. We will consider it as an honour if the principle Office Bearers of other ESM Associations attend the Meeting, for better inter action.
With Best Wishes,
Col (Retd) TN Raman
Convener IESM Tamilnadu
Saturday, May 23, 2009
GOI pension orders for Lt Cols/ cdrs / Wg Cdrs finally here
Dear All,
Pls find the much awaited GOI letter for the pension as per pay band 4 A for retd LtCols / Cdrs/Wg Cdrs ...attached are the pdf file and the 2 jpg files.
Click for the Pension letter
Thanks to Maj Navdeep Singh
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Team IESM
Pls find the much awaited GOI letter for the pension as per pay band 4 A for retd LtCols / Cdrs/Wg Cdrs ...attached are the pdf file and the 2 jpg files.
Click for the Pension letter
Thanks to Maj Navdeep Singh
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Team IESM
Hindustan Times 24 May 2009 gives 5 priorities for the Defence Minsiter the "TO-DO -LIST":.OROP is there.
Dear All,
Today's Hindustan Times 24 May 2009 gives 5 priorities for the Defence Minsiter the "TO-DO -LIST":
They are listed on page 7 .
1. Ensure transparency in Defence deals.
2. Big tenders not secretive.
3. Speed up procurement of fighter jets
4. Define Indi-US milirutary relations
5. Take a fresh look at the One Rank one Pension demand of war Veterans (OROP)
Looks like IESM has been successful...in making OROP be in the TO DO LIST...
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (retd)
Member Core Group IESM
Today's Hindustan Times 24 May 2009 gives 5 priorities for the Defence Minsiter the "TO-DO -LIST":
They are listed on page 7 .
1. Ensure transparency in Defence deals.
2. Big tenders not secretive.
3. Speed up procurement of fighter jets
4. Define Indi-US milirutary relations
5. Take a fresh look at the One Rank one Pension demand of war Veterans (OROP)
Looks like IESM has been successful...in making OROP be in the TO DO LIST...
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (retd)
Member Core Group IESM
Thursday, May 21, 2009
INDIANEXSERVICEMEN BLOG ANNOUNCES – SCHOLARSHIP By Sgt Muthu
From: Muthu Krishnan cm_krish@yahoo.co.in
Subject: INDIANEXSERVICEMEN BLOG ANNOUNCES – SCHOLARSHIP
To: jkraj46@gmail.com, rajkadyan@yahoo.com, kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Cc: reportmysignalblogspot@gmail.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 12:21 PM
Respected Sir,
It has been decided to grant an annual scholarship of Rs.1001/- to the wards of poor defence family pensioners from the year 2009, in the name of 'indianexserviceman' blog.
I request your participation in the scheme. The Tirunelveli Dt. Exsm. Welfare Assn. will be conducting its 8th Anniversary within two months. Our Association also has lot of scholarship schemes. These will be announced shortly. The dates will be announced later.
I will send the details in a few days. I wish the 'Reportmysignal - blog also should announce some scheme for the poor. In the meanwhile kindly give wide publicity to this Scholarship scheme to bring in some donors to this noble scheme so that it can be extended throughout the country.
If you find good, please publish in 'Reportmysignal blog'.
With kind regards.
Thanking you,
Yours sincerely,
C.Muthukrishnan.
Blog: indianexserviceman.blogspot.com
INDIANEXSERVICEMAN BLOG ANNOUNCES SCHOLARSHIP
TO THE WARDS OF POOR DEFENCE FAMILY PENSIONERS
“Education is a liberating force, and in our age it is also a democratizing force, cutting across the barriers of caste and class smoothing out inequalities imposed by birth and other circumstances”
-Smt.Indira Gandhi.
Education is the life & hope for the poor. Therefore the poor must be helped for education if not for food. With this noble thought in mind, the ‘indianexserviceman’ blog team decided to donate a sum of Rs.1001/- (in the beginning) to the best performing ward of poor defence family pensioner belonging to other ranks (i.e. the Sepoys, Naiks & Havildars and equivalent ranks in Navy & Air Force) on the basis of highest total marks obtained in the +2 (Hr. Secondary exam.) in the year 2009 in Tamil Nadu. This small and simple scholarship scheme is announced within 95 days of the creation of Blog “indianexserviceman.blogspot.com”. Initially the scheme is open to the defence family pensioners belonging to Tamil Nadu only. Later, with some addition of some sponsors to the scheme, it will be extended throughout the country.
In order to help the really needy people, the scope of this scheme has been narrowed down to the children of the widows of the other ranks. (Sepoy, Naik & Havildar)
The top scorer in the 2009 +2 examination (Hr. Secondary) will be awarded a one time scholarship of Rs.1001 by the ‘indianexserviceman’ blog team at a function which will be held within 3 months from the date of this publication at Tirunelveli. The last date for the receipt of application is 30th June, 2009. Scanned mark sheet along with a copy of pass port size photo of the ward affixed on a plain application giving full details as per format given below may be sent by e-mail to: indianexserviceman@gmail.com before 30th June 2009 at 5 pm.
The readers of this blog are requested to disseminate this information through the Ex-servicemen Canteens and ECHS Polyclinics throughout Tamil Nadu. Kindly help them wherever necessary. Those who wish to help the poor children are welcome to send e-mail for further details.
For Application form - click
---------
THE END
Subject: INDIANEXSERVICEMEN BLOG ANNOUNCES – SCHOLARSHIP
To: jkraj46@gmail.com, rajkadyan@yahoo.com, kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Cc: reportmysignalblogspot@gmail.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 12:21 PM
Respected Sir,
It has been decided to grant an annual scholarship of Rs.1001/- to the wards of poor defence family pensioners from the year 2009, in the name of 'indianexserviceman' blog.
I request your participation in the scheme. The Tirunelveli Dt. Exsm. Welfare Assn. will be conducting its 8th Anniversary within two months. Our Association also has lot of scholarship schemes. These will be announced shortly. The dates will be announced later.
I will send the details in a few days. I wish the 'Reportmysignal - blog also should announce some scheme for the poor. In the meanwhile kindly give wide publicity to this Scholarship scheme to bring in some donors to this noble scheme so that it can be extended throughout the country.
If you find good, please publish in 'Reportmysignal blog'.
With kind regards.
Thanking you,
Yours sincerely,
C.Muthukrishnan.
Blog: indianexserviceman.blogspot.com
INDIANEXSERVICEMAN BLOG ANNOUNCES SCHOLARSHIP
TO THE WARDS OF POOR DEFENCE FAMILY PENSIONERS
“Education is a liberating force, and in our age it is also a democratizing force, cutting across the barriers of caste and class smoothing out inequalities imposed by birth and other circumstances”
-Smt.Indira Gandhi.
Education is the life & hope for the poor. Therefore the poor must be helped for education if not for food. With this noble thought in mind, the ‘indianexserviceman’ blog team decided to donate a sum of Rs.1001/- (in the beginning) to the best performing ward of poor defence family pensioner belonging to other ranks (i.e. the Sepoys, Naiks & Havildars and equivalent ranks in Navy & Air Force) on the basis of highest total marks obtained in the +2 (Hr. Secondary exam.) in the year 2009 in Tamil Nadu. This small and simple scholarship scheme is announced within 95 days of the creation of Blog “indianexserviceman.blogspot.com”. Initially the scheme is open to the defence family pensioners belonging to Tamil Nadu only. Later, with some addition of some sponsors to the scheme, it will be extended throughout the country.
In order to help the really needy people, the scope of this scheme has been narrowed down to the children of the widows of the other ranks. (Sepoy, Naik & Havildar)
The top scorer in the 2009 +2 examination (Hr. Secondary) will be awarded a one time scholarship of Rs.1001 by the ‘indianexserviceman’ blog team at a function which will be held within 3 months from the date of this publication at Tirunelveli. The last date for the receipt of application is 30th June, 2009. Scanned mark sheet along with a copy of pass port size photo of the ward affixed on a plain application giving full details as per format given below may be sent by e-mail to: indianexserviceman@gmail.com before 30th June 2009 at 5 pm.
The readers of this blog are requested to disseminate this information through the Ex-servicemen Canteens and ECHS Polyclinics throughout Tamil Nadu. Kindly help them wherever necessary. Those who wish to help the poor children are welcome to send e-mail for further details.
For Application form - click
---------
THE END
ROUNDING OFF OF DISABILITY PENSION APPLICABLE TO SUPERANNUATED PERS by Brig PT Gangadharan
From: brigadier ptgangadharan brigadier.ptgangadharan@gmail.com
Subject: ROUNDING OFF OF DISABILITY PENSION APPLICABLE TO SUPERANNUATED PERS
To: "R/ Adm. Sanjiv Kapoor , Delhi" sanjiv.kapoors@gmail.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 1:53 PM
Benefit of rounding off / bunching of disability percentage for calculation of disability element would be applicable to superannuating personnel too
The 5th Central Pay Commission had recommended the benefit of rounding-off / bunching of disability percentages for grant of disability element of disability pension. It was recommended that persons with disability till 50% should be paid a disability element calculated by taking the disability at 50%, those with a disability between 50-75% should be granted a disability element by taking the disability as 75% and those with a disability above 75% should be granted a disability element @ 100%.
The said modalities were notified by the Govt in 2001 with effect from 1996. However, the govt sanction letter provided that the said benefit would only be made available to those who were invalided out and not to those who were discharged on completion of terms or on superannuation with a disability, and that the latter would be granted a disability element in accordance with the actual percentage of disability and hence would not be provided the benefit of rounding off / bunching.
The Hon’ble Punjab & Haryana High Court however did not take this kindly. The Hon’ble High Court in 2008, in the case Paramjit Singh Vs Union of India, ruled that even those who are discharged on completion of terms or on superannuation would be entitled to the rounding off and bunching of disability percentage thereby leading to an enhanced pension. The same was done by relying on Regulation 179 (Regulation 53 for officers) of the Pension Regulations for the Army. The said Regulations provide that persons retiring or superannuating with a disability would also be ‘deemed to have been invalided out’ or service.
The govt however filed a review petition in the said Writ Petition but the same has been dismissed by the Hon’ble Court and it has been re-iterated that the benefit should be granted to all disabled personnel including those discharged / retiring with a disability and not only to those who have been invalided.
The Court has also held that AGIF is liable to pay disability cover even to discharged / superannuating personnel and that AGIF is very much a body under the control of the govt, the actions of which can be challenged in the High Court. It was contended by the Govt that AGIF was not a body of the ‘State’ and hence writ jurisdiction could not be invoked against it.
Brigadier PTGangadharan,Guards,
Veteran,
Kozhikode(Calicut)-673016.
Tel:0495 2356863/9447766863
...........
TIMES OF INDIA
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Chandigarh/HC-rejects-disability-cover-review/articleshow/4553731.cms
HC rejects disability cover review
20 May 2009, 0157 hrs IST, Vishal Sharma, TNN
CHANDIGARH: Shrugging off the Army Group Insurance Fund’s contention that it was an “independent society” and had “nothing to do with other wings of the Army”, the Punjab and Haryana High Court has observed that a soldier, who is grievously injured during anti-insurgency operations and subsequently discharged due to disability, is “deemed to have been invalidated out of service”.
Such a soldier, it said, is entitled to 50% disability pension and disability benefit cover under the Army Group Insurance Fund.
The high court ruling was made available only on Tuesday.
------------
Subject: ROUNDING OFF OF DISABILITY PENSION APPLICABLE TO SUPERANNUATED PERS
To: "R/ Adm. Sanjiv Kapoor , Delhi" sanjiv.kapoors@gmail.com
Date: Thursday, 21 May, 2009, 1:53 PM
Benefit of rounding off / bunching of disability percentage for calculation of disability element would be applicable to superannuating personnel too
The 5th Central Pay Commission had recommended the benefit of rounding-off / bunching of disability percentages for grant of disability element of disability pension. It was recommended that persons with disability till 50% should be paid a disability element calculated by taking the disability at 50%, those with a disability between 50-75% should be granted a disability element by taking the disability as 75% and those with a disability above 75% should be granted a disability element @ 100%.
The said modalities were notified by the Govt in 2001 with effect from 1996. However, the govt sanction letter provided that the said benefit would only be made available to those who were invalided out and not to those who were discharged on completion of terms or on superannuation with a disability, and that the latter would be granted a disability element in accordance with the actual percentage of disability and hence would not be provided the benefit of rounding off / bunching.
The Hon’ble Punjab & Haryana High Court however did not take this kindly. The Hon’ble High Court in 2008, in the case Paramjit Singh Vs Union of India, ruled that even those who are discharged on completion of terms or on superannuation would be entitled to the rounding off and bunching of disability percentage thereby leading to an enhanced pension. The same was done by relying on Regulation 179 (Regulation 53 for officers) of the Pension Regulations for the Army. The said Regulations provide that persons retiring or superannuating with a disability would also be ‘deemed to have been invalided out’ or service.
The govt however filed a review petition in the said Writ Petition but the same has been dismissed by the Hon’ble Court and it has been re-iterated that the benefit should be granted to all disabled personnel including those discharged / retiring with a disability and not only to those who have been invalided.
The Court has also held that AGIF is liable to pay disability cover even to discharged / superannuating personnel and that AGIF is very much a body under the control of the govt, the actions of which can be challenged in the High Court. It was contended by the Govt that AGIF was not a body of the ‘State’ and hence writ jurisdiction could not be invoked against it.
Brigadier PTGangadharan,Guards,
Veteran,
Kozhikode(Calicut)-673016.
Tel:0495 2356863/9447766863
...........
TIMES OF INDIA
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Chandigarh/HC-rejects-disability-cover-review/articleshow/4553731.cms
HC rejects disability cover review
20 May 2009, 0157 hrs IST, Vishal Sharma, TNN
CHANDIGARH: Shrugging off the Army Group Insurance Fund’s contention that it was an “independent society” and had “nothing to do with other wings of the Army”, the Punjab and Haryana High Court has observed that a soldier, who is grievously injured during anti-insurgency operations and subsequently discharged due to disability, is “deemed to have been invalidated out of service”.
Such a soldier, it said, is entitled to 50% disability pension and disability benefit cover under the Army Group Insurance Fund.
The high court ruling was made available only on Tuesday.
------------
Scholarship for wards of ESM family pensioners
It has been decided to grant an annual scholarship of Rs.1001/- to the wards of poor defence family pensioners from the year 2009, in the name of 'indianexserviceman' blog. I request your participation in the scheme. The Tirunelveli District ESM Welfare Association will be conducting its 8th Anniversary in two months. Our Association also has lot of scholarship schemes which will be announced shortly.
In the meanwhile kindly give wide publicity to this Scholarship scheme to bring in some donors to this noble scheme so that it can be extended throughout the country.
C Muthukrishnan (Ex Sgt)
Kindly visit link below for full details:
Click for the site
In the meanwhile kindly give wide publicity to this Scholarship scheme to bring in some donors to this noble scheme so that it can be extended throughout the country.
C Muthukrishnan (Ex Sgt)
Kindly visit link below for full details:
Click for the site
THE INDIAN ELECTIONS-NEW YORK TIMES
THE INDIAN ELECTIONS-NEW YORK TIMES
It is truly the greatest show on Earth, an ode to a diverse and democratic ethos, where 700 million + of humanity vote, providing their small part in directing their ancient civilization into the future. It is no less impressive when done in a neighborhood which includes de-stabilizing and violent Pakistan, China, and Burma.
Its challenges are immense, more so probably than anywhere else, particularly in development and fending off terrorism -- but considering these challenges and its neighbors, it is even more astounding that the most diverse nation on Earth, with hundreds of languages, all religions and cultures, is not only surviving, but thriving.
The nation where Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism were born, which is the second largest Muslim nation on Earth; where Christianity has existed for 2000 years; where the oldest Jewish synagogues and Jewish communities have resided since the Romans burnt their 2nd temple; where the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile reside; where the Zorostrians from Persia have thrived since being thrown out of their ancient homeland; where Armenians and Syrians and many others have to come live; where the Paris-based OECD said was the largest economy on Earth 1500 of the last 2000 years, including the 2nd largest only 200 years ago; where 3 Muslim Presidents have been elected, where a Sikh is Prime Minister and the head of the ruling party a Catholic Italian woman, where the President is also a women, succeeding a Muslim President who as a rocket scientist was a hero in the nation; where a booming economy is lifting 40 million out of poverty each year and is expected to have the majority of its population in the middle class, already equal to the entire US population, by 2025; where its optimism and vibrancy is manifested in its movies, arts, economic growth, and voting, despite all the incredible challenges and hardships; where all the great powers are vying for influence, as it itself finds its place in the world.
Where all of this is happening, is India, and as greater than 1/10 of humanity gets ready to vote, it is an inspiration to all the World.
— V Mitchell, New York, NY
It is truly the greatest show on Earth, an ode to a diverse and democratic ethos, where 700 million + of humanity vote, providing their small part in directing their ancient civilization into the future. It is no less impressive when done in a neighborhood which includes de-stabilizing and violent Pakistan, China, and Burma.
Its challenges are immense, more so probably than anywhere else, particularly in development and fending off terrorism -- but considering these challenges and its neighbors, it is even more astounding that the most diverse nation on Earth, with hundreds of languages, all religions and cultures, is not only surviving, but thriving.
The nation where Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism were born, which is the second largest Muslim nation on Earth; where Christianity has existed for 2000 years; where the oldest Jewish synagogues and Jewish communities have resided since the Romans burnt their 2nd temple; where the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile reside; where the Zorostrians from Persia have thrived since being thrown out of their ancient homeland; where Armenians and Syrians and many others have to come live; where the Paris-based OECD said was the largest economy on Earth 1500 of the last 2000 years, including the 2nd largest only 200 years ago; where 3 Muslim Presidents have been elected, where a Sikh is Prime Minister and the head of the ruling party a Catholic Italian woman, where the President is also a women, succeeding a Muslim President who as a rocket scientist was a hero in the nation; where a booming economy is lifting 40 million out of poverty each year and is expected to have the majority of its population in the middle class, already equal to the entire US population, by 2025; where its optimism and vibrancy is manifested in its movies, arts, economic growth, and voting, despite all the incredible challenges and hardships; where all the great powers are vying for influence, as it itself finds its place in the world.
Where all of this is happening, is India, and as greater than 1/10 of humanity gets ready to vote, it is an inspiration to all the World.
— V Mitchell, New York, NY
Tuesday, May 19, 2009
Are 'Fauzis' Politically Dumb? by Brig Sukhwindar singh
Are 'Fauzis' Politically Dumb?
Soldiers have a right to vote. The Constitution provides this right. A Soldier is free to cast his Vote in favour of any Political Party. It is therefore never meant that a Serving Soldier can not have political inclination or choice.
Then what is being 'apolitical' for a Serving Soldier? He is to be 'apolitical' while supporting the Government of the Day, led by any party, despite his preference for the ideology propagated by some other Party which may NOT be in power. He is to give his 100% in discharging his duties in support of the Govt. for Governance within the Constitutional framework.
ESMs of course are FREE. They have to only ensure that NO action of theirs, as a learned and disciplined ex-Soldiers, should adversely impact the Serving Community.
Fauzis therefore need NOT be seen as Politically Dumb.
We must use our Voting Power to the best advantage of the ESMs. Work out long-term alliances - preferably pre-poll. And commence ground work well integrated with the Party You wish to support as an ESM Organisation. And Consolidate the advantages gained thus far.
Brig Sukhwindar Singh
Soldiers have a right to vote. The Constitution provides this right. A Soldier is free to cast his Vote in favour of any Political Party. It is therefore never meant that a Serving Soldier can not have political inclination or choice.
Then what is being 'apolitical' for a Serving Soldier? He is to be 'apolitical' while supporting the Government of the Day, led by any party, despite his preference for the ideology propagated by some other Party which may NOT be in power. He is to give his 100% in discharging his duties in support of the Govt. for Governance within the Constitutional framework.
ESMs of course are FREE. They have to only ensure that NO action of theirs, as a learned and disciplined ex-Soldiers, should adversely impact the Serving Community.
Fauzis therefore need NOT be seen as Politically Dumb.
We must use our Voting Power to the best advantage of the ESMs. Work out long-term alliances - preferably pre-poll. And commence ground work well integrated with the Party You wish to support as an ESM Organisation. And Consolidate the advantages gained thus far.
Brig Sukhwindar Singh
IESM Members data is online by Cdr Sharan ahuja
Dear All members of IESM,
IESM is having a web site www.iesm.org which is fully functional and being updated with all the related news almost on hourly basis daily.
2. Wish to bring to the notice of all members that the feeding in of data of the IESM members is going on a fast pace and one can view his name by going to the site www.iesm.org and click on " Register" tab which is 4th from left on top. So far the data fed in is as below in para 4.
3. On click of : Register" on the Home page of the site you will see 4 tabs in a row called
"Membership form" / "Register On line" / "Registration Procedure" / "View Members"
4. On click of "View Members " tab you would see the various rows
"Number of members from Army " 932 View ( 1 to 59 pages)
"Number of members from Navy" 98 View ( 1 to 6 pages)
"Number of members from Airforce"" 195 View (1 to 13 pages)
In click of View for respective service you would be seeing the names of the members. This list is incomplete and is being worked upon continuesly daily by Maj Gen PK Renjen the Treasurer of IESM at Gurgaon. The no at the bottom of the site www.iesm.org home page shows Total members (data entry in progress) 1259 as of today 20 May 2009.
Those whose name does not appear need not despair as evry day almost 40-60 members data is being keyed in and if you keep on seeing the site daily you should soon find your name in the list.
Soon a " Search" facilty will be incorporated and also the data would be displayed in the grid in ascending order of surnames..so it will be easier to locate one's name in the respective service lists.
Any suggestions for the site are welcome.
Regards
Cdr Sharan ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Group IESM
IESM is having a web site www.iesm.org which is fully functional and being updated with all the related news almost on hourly basis daily.
2. Wish to bring to the notice of all members that the feeding in of data of the IESM members is going on a fast pace and one can view his name by going to the site www.iesm.org and click on " Register" tab which is 4th from left on top. So far the data fed in is as below in para 4.
3. On click of : Register" on the Home page of the site you will see 4 tabs in a row called
"Membership form" / "Register On line" / "Registration Procedure" / "View Members"
4. On click of "View Members " tab you would see the various rows
"Number of members from Army " 932 View ( 1 to 59 pages)
"Number of members from Navy" 98 View ( 1 to 6 pages)
"Number of members from Airforce"" 195 View (1 to 13 pages)
In click of View for respective service you would be seeing the names of the members. This list is incomplete and is being worked upon continuesly daily by Maj Gen PK Renjen the Treasurer of IESM at Gurgaon. The no at the bottom of the site www.iesm.org home page shows Total members (data entry in progress) 1259 as of today 20 May 2009.
Those whose name does not appear need not despair as evry day almost 40-60 members data is being keyed in and if you keep on seeing the site daily you should soon find your name in the list.
Soon a " Search" facilty will be incorporated and also the data would be displayed in the grid in ascending order of surnames..so it will be easier to locate one's name in the respective service lists.
Any suggestions for the site are welcome.
Regards
Cdr Sharan ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Group IESM
News from Dehra Dun by Lt col Brij Thapa
From: Brij Thapa col_thapa_engrs@hotmail.com
To: "aaa Brig C S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 9:36 PM
Dear Brig Kamboj sir,
Cordial regards.
Many thanks for all the valuable information. We had Veteran Officers & families get together on 17 May 09. Every one supports IESM activities and we all are with IESM to achieve the final Mission though only few demands Govt has materialized so far. God willing present new Govt will do needful though having given ok for OROP in their so called manifesto at very late stage. All depends now on strategy & tactics adopted by IESM core group for pressurising the Govt to achieve the Mission.
Brij
......
Dear Editor,(For various news paper editors)
Kindly publish the news in your news paper please.
Regards
Lt Col B M Thapa,Retd General Secretary , Dehradun Ex-Services League
VETERANS GET TOGETHER IN DSOI; ORGANISED
BY
DEHRADUN EX-SERVICES LEAGUE
Get together of veteran officers and families was organized by Dehradun Ex-Services League on 17 May 09 at DSOI which was attended by more than 200 veteran officers and families. First time such excellent evening get together with nice entertainment programme was organised with the help of Brig A K Siwach, Commander Uttarakhand Sub Area, Brig(Retd) K G Behl, President Dehradun Ex-Services League, Lt Col(Retd) B M Thapa, General Secretary Dehradun Ex-Services League, Col P S Sikarwar CO ASC Supply, Lt Col(Retd) O P Chhabra Secretary DSOI, Lt Col(Retd) R P Jairath, Lt Col(Retd) R K Arya and Lt Col(Retd) R K Chawla. Many veterans could meet their old friends after long gap to revive their old memories and past association to refresh the reminiscences. Function was attended by Brig A K Siwach, Lt Gen(Retd) T P S Rawat, Ex MP and Ex Tourism Minister Uttarakhand,Lt Gen(Retd) R S Tomar,Maj Gen(Retd) O P Sabharwal, Maj Gen(Retd) J D Madhok, Maj Gen(Retd) S R Bahuguna, Maj Gen(Retd) K K Jetly, Maj Gen(Retd) Shamsher Singh, Brig(Retd) A N Acharya, Col(Retd) K L Dewan, Lt Col(Retd) S S Thapa and many others.
In Put:-Lt Col B M Thapa,Retd, General Secretary Ex-Services League, Dehradun
To: "aaa Brig C S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 9:36 PM
Dear Brig Kamboj sir,
Cordial regards.
Many thanks for all the valuable information. We had Veteran Officers & families get together on 17 May 09. Every one supports IESM activities and we all are with IESM to achieve the final Mission though only few demands Govt has materialized so far. God willing present new Govt will do needful though having given ok for OROP in their so called manifesto at very late stage. All depends now on strategy & tactics adopted by IESM core group for pressurising the Govt to achieve the Mission.
Brij
......
Dear Editor,(For various news paper editors)
Kindly publish the news in your news paper please.
Regards
Lt Col B M Thapa,Retd General Secretary , Dehradun Ex-Services League
VETERANS GET TOGETHER IN DSOI; ORGANISED
BY
DEHRADUN EX-SERVICES LEAGUE
Get together of veteran officers and families was organized by Dehradun Ex-Services League on 17 May 09 at DSOI which was attended by more than 200 veteran officers and families. First time such excellent evening get together with nice entertainment programme was organised with the help of Brig A K Siwach, Commander Uttarakhand Sub Area, Brig(Retd) K G Behl, President Dehradun Ex-Services League, Lt Col(Retd) B M Thapa, General Secretary Dehradun Ex-Services League, Col P S Sikarwar CO ASC Supply, Lt Col(Retd) O P Chhabra Secretary DSOI, Lt Col(Retd) R P Jairath, Lt Col(Retd) R K Arya and Lt Col(Retd) R K Chawla. Many veterans could meet their old friends after long gap to revive their old memories and past association to refresh the reminiscences. Function was attended by Brig A K Siwach, Lt Gen(Retd) T P S Rawat, Ex MP and Ex Tourism Minister Uttarakhand,Lt Gen(Retd) R S Tomar,Maj Gen(Retd) O P Sabharwal, Maj Gen(Retd) J D Madhok, Maj Gen(Retd) S R Bahuguna, Maj Gen(Retd) K K Jetly, Maj Gen(Retd) Shamsher Singh, Brig(Retd) A N Acharya, Col(Retd) K L Dewan, Lt Col(Retd) S S Thapa and many others.
In Put:-Lt Col B M Thapa,Retd, General Secretary Ex-Services League, Dehradun
Views of N Vittal
N VittalFrom: Col Ashok Kapur ak236er@gmail.com
Subject: Re: A strategic inoculation
To: "REPORT MY SIGNAL (CS Kamboj)" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 10:27 PM
Regards
Col Ashok Kapur
2623 Clover Highlands
Near NIBM, Pisoli Road
Kondhwa
PUNE-411048
+919766540236
…………
PUNEMIRROR.in
Quick News
A strategic inoculation
Amid the euphoria of democracy,
we should see that the morale of our armed forces is maintained
By N Vittal
Posted On Monday, May 18, 2009 at 05:34:31 AM
As Indians we can all be legitimately proud of our 60 years of vigorous democracy. The 15th general elections have just been over and we have witnessed the lively game of politics which adds spice to our democracy.
In fact as Indians we have been particularly lucky.
From the mid-twentieth century till the nineties a large number of colonies in Asia and Africa became independent. Unfortunately most of them became examples of poor governance. Many became single party dominated totalitarian regimes. Many went the way of communism and human liberties became a casualty. Many others became dictatorships of army generals and colonels.
Against this dismal record India almost alone emerged as a real democracy. The just concluded general elections is a glorious demonstration of this proud fact.
Our unique and lucky position can be particularly appreciated if we just look around and see what is happening in our neighbourhood. Pakistan is imploding. Nepal is lurching on the edge of chaos. Bangladesh is just recovering from their last elections.
Sri Lanka is struggling with a three decade old insurgency. Myanmar has gone into a deep freeze of democracy under a military junta. Further East, Thailand is facing a crisis between the elected government and the military which has intervened far too often in the government. Indonesia is limping back after a long spell of military dictatorship. China may be a great power but it is certainly not a democracy.
What is the secret of our fortune? It is thanks to the role played by three key institutions of governance. These are the Election Commission, the Judiciary and our Armed Forces. We readily recognise the role of the first two, but we hardly ever recognise the silent contribution of our thoroughly professional and politically neutral armed forces.
This is particularly very remarkable when we just look across the border and see what has happened in Pakistan and Bangladesh. The track record of the Indian armed forces is all the more commendable when we recall that they were all trained by the same British who set up excellent traditions in the armed forces.
As we celebrate the health of our vigorous democracy we should not take our luck so far, for granted. We should particularly nurture our armed forces and see that their morale and commitment to professionalism are maintained.
When it comes to health we are all aware of the fact that prevention is better than cure. The recent scare about swine flu underlined that message and saw many countries co-operating in ensuring that proper precautions are taken and a pandemic is avoided.
For the health of our democracy it is necessary that the new government pays special attention to our armed forces which constitute an important pillar for our democracy. From a broad perspective one thing is important. We must be able to make our defence services an attractive career option for our youth.
One major reason for the lack of attraction of armed forces as a career is a weakening of our sense of patriotism and nationhood. The growth of regionalism and caste based politics has greatly undermined the national sentiment and made patriotism almost anachronistic.
Equally important is the treatment meted out to ex-servicemen and veterans. We have seen the dissatisfaction of the defence services during the implementation of the sixth pay commission. How many are aware of the sense of frustration and the feeling of lack of izzat or respect amongst the retired servicemen on the issue of one rank-one pay?
Unless we take serious note of these signals of hurt pride and wounded morale, there is a danger that our vaunted track record of democracy may be seriously threatened.
When thousands of crores were waived for the agriculture sector and populist measures like free TV have become the norm of politics it is unfair if the reasonable demands of the defence services are not met. No government can invoke the old arguments of budget deficit etc. A strategic inoculation against the loss of morale in the armed forces is an important national priority for the new government.
In the last decade, N Vittal, the former CVC, emerged as the voice of our collective conscience. This is his weekly take on public life in India
Views by Col BS Dhillon..Chandigarh
From: baldev dhillon biloodhilon@gmail.com
Subject: Action necessary for saving the unity of IESM Punjab—
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 9:43 PM
Dear Raj,
1. We take this opportunity to thank you and the Core Group for taking the uniterrupted criticism for the being labelled as Pro-BJP in the true spirit, as we being a democratic and mature set up are open to views of all ex-servicemen. This, in my view will help us to stay clear of divisive forces in future as well as help & motivate our further resolve to keep up the pressure on any Govt in power for our just demand of OROP, more for the PBOR, who are the most sufferers and great injustice done to them.
2. The IESM has been able to try and forge some unity amongst the various ESM organisations but some saboteurs are still present, who are bent upon creating rifts and are assuming such self appointed designations, after being rejected and outlawed by their parent ESM organisations here in IESM Punjab [Mohali].
3. The IESM Punjab coordinator for Mohali is Lt Col SS Sohi, who single handed has been instrumental in getting all the local ESM groups with him and because of this; we have been able to put in our efforts with the central organisation. He is the most active and self-less worker for the Ex-servicemen & Family pensioners having started the Ex-servicemen Grievance Cell in Mohali since last 15 years and has been taking up cases with all concerned and also issuing Press Releases in the media from time to time..
4. Today I wish to request you to kindly ... (edited) ..... to send all communications directly to Lt Col S S Sohi, at ''sadhusohi@gmail.com '' for action or for further dissemination to the ex-servicemen in Mohali/Chandigarh . This will close the bitter infighting & atmosphere being vitiated. ... (edited) ....
5. I would like to appeal to all Ex-servicemen to stop the E-Mails pertaining to the 12 APR 09 advisory& election results, as we have to be united for the continuation of our struggle for OROP. A point we must record that voting for BJP does not mean that we have joined BJP & we cannot approach UPA for our demands. We must remember that we are not fighting only for IESM members but all the 2.5 Million Ex-servicemen/Widows throughout our country with a major thrust for the PBOR.
6. Lastly I would request the Core Group to kindly decide the future course of action considering all options available to us to get our demands accepted by the Govt.
With Regards,
Col B S Dhillon, CHANDIGARH .
(All ESM need to appreciate the reconciliation approach adopted by Col BS Dhillon to remove all misunderstanding among some of us.
I congratulate you Col Dhillon for this very important initiative.
It is time all negative emails criticising various ESM organisation are stopped. Help from all Veterans is necessary to bring peace among all veterans and –
Subject: Action necessary for saving the unity of IESM Punjab—
Date: Tuesday, 19 May, 2009, 9:43 PM
Dear Raj,
1. We take this opportunity to thank you and the Core Group for taking the uniterrupted criticism for the being labelled as Pro-BJP in the true spirit, as we being a democratic and mature set up are open to views of all ex-servicemen. This, in my view will help us to stay clear of divisive forces in future as well as help & motivate our further resolve to keep up the pressure on any Govt in power for our just demand of OROP, more for the PBOR, who are the most sufferers and great injustice done to them.
2. The IESM has been able to try and forge some unity amongst the various ESM organisations but some saboteurs are still present, who are bent upon creating rifts and are assuming such self appointed designations, after being rejected and outlawed by their parent ESM organisations here in IESM Punjab [Mohali].
3. The IESM Punjab coordinator for Mohali is Lt Col SS Sohi, who single handed has been instrumental in getting all the local ESM groups with him and because of this; we have been able to put in our efforts with the central organisation. He is the most active and self-less worker for the Ex-servicemen & Family pensioners having started the Ex-servicemen Grievance Cell in Mohali since last 15 years and has been taking up cases with all concerned and also issuing Press Releases in the media from time to time..
4. Today I wish to request you to kindly ... (edited) ..... to send all communications directly to Lt Col S S Sohi, at ''sadhusohi@gmail.com '' for action or for further dissemination to the ex-servicemen in Mohali/Chandigarh . This will close the bitter infighting & atmosphere being vitiated. ... (edited) ....
5. I would like to appeal to all Ex-servicemen to stop the E-Mails pertaining to the 12 APR 09 advisory& election results, as we have to be united for the continuation of our struggle for OROP. A point we must record that voting for BJP does not mean that we have joined BJP & we cannot approach UPA for our demands. We must remember that we are not fighting only for IESM members but all the 2.5 Million Ex-servicemen/Widows throughout our country with a major thrust for the PBOR.
6. Lastly I would request the Core Group to kindly decide the future course of action considering all options available to us to get our demands accepted by the Govt.
With Regards,
Col B S Dhillon, CHANDIGARH .
(All ESM need to appreciate the reconciliation approach adopted by Col BS Dhillon to remove all misunderstanding among some of us.
I congratulate you Col Dhillon for this very important initiative.
It is time all negative emails criticising various ESM organisation are stopped. Help from all Veterans is necessary to bring peace among all veterans and –
By C Uday Bhaskar
FROM THE FRIDAY TIMES (TFT) – LAHORE
Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Paper.
October 17-23, 2008- Vol. XX, No. 35
The Friday Times, 72 FCC Gulberg 4, Lahore, Pakistan
Ph: 92-42-5763510; Fax: 92-42-5751025,
e-Mail: tft@lhr.comsats.net.pk
Revisiting civil-military relations
The ever supplicant 'fauj' in India
by C Uday Bhaskar
Over the years, the Indian military as an institution has been progressively downgraded in the hierarchy of government and within the caste-system of the state.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since independence, India's civil-military relations have always been perceived as the exception to the rule, specifically in the regional context. Neighbouring states such as Pakistan and Burma experienced different kinds of military domination over the civilian establishment. Even Bangladesh, after the assassination of Mujibur Rehman in 1975, joined the norm and the military became the dominant constituency.
This distinctive Indian trait, wherein the military internalised the tenet of civilian political supremacy in a seemingly chaotic but robust democracy, has been the subject of considerable study and has on occasion been referred to as a 'puzzle'. Many complex reasons have been advanced for this abiding pattern of the emergence of a totally apolitical and professional military. This even endured during the brief interregnum of the Emergency imposed by Indira Gandhi where in fairness to her, she made no attempt to involve the Army in her support.
The credit for ensuring this sanctity of civilian political primacy must go to the early Indian leadership – both political and military – who were influenced by the Gandhian spirit of the times. Then General KM Cariappa, the first Indian Army Chief, symbolised the apolitical and subordinate stance which the nascent Indian military leadership readily accepted as an article of faith. In contrast to what was happening in Pakistan where the Army loomed large, Pandit Nehru and his colleagues such as Sardar Patel and Rajagopalachari, among many others, had a stature and aura that commanded enormous admiration across the country.
In retrospect, it may be said that in the early decades, the concept of civilian supremacy to thwart a possible coup was taken to extreme ends, and the civilian elite kept the Indian 'fauj' at a disdainful distance. Perceived as the last vestige of the Raj, the Colonel Blimps were confined to the cantonments and Nehru is alleged to have famously observed that free India with its commitment to peace did not need a large military – which was necessary at best for aid to civil power during natural calamities and ceremonial duties to receive visiting
heads of state!
The first 15 years of the civil-military relationship were strained at the political level and Nehru's left-leaning defence minister, the acerbic Krishna Menon, exacerbated the divide. Concurrently, the senior bureaucracy ensured that the military was progressively nudged out of the framework of higher defence management. The original Ismay Plan had envisioned the creation of a top military structure that would advise the political leadership directly while allowing for commanders-in-chief to look after operational duties. In an
ill-advised move, the service chiefs of the time opted to wear both hats – that of individual C-in-Cs of their respective services and simultaneously Chiefs of Staff.
This led to the gradual distancing of the military as an institution from the Government of India. This is how Admiral Arun Prakash (retd), till recently Chairman Chiefs of Staff and Chief of Naval Staff, opines of the original Ismay intent:
"However, not only did this not happen, but within a short period of its implementation, the senior civil servants of that period intervened to completely distort the concept of 'civilian supremacy' to give it their own interpretation of 'bureaucratic control' over the armed forces. This was done by the simple expedient of designating the three Service HQ as 'Attached Offices' of the Department of Defence, giving them (as per the GoI Rules of Business) a status exactly on par with organisations such as the Salt Commissioner, Commissioner for Handicrafts, Central Reserve Police Force…"
Inept political handling of the Army in particular culminated in the debacle of the 1962 war with China, and soon thereafter, the political apex realised that the morale of the military had to be restored and the widely respected and quietly competent YB Chavan assumed office as the defence minister.
During his tenure, there was regular institutional contact between the minister, the service chiefs and the senior bureaucracy of the ministry, with the cabinet secretary also participating on occasion. But this normative style of functioning was short-lived and was enabled more due to the persona of Chavan.
The institutional chasm between the military and the civilian leadership grew and Indira Gandhi's own political insecurities did not allow an able and visible defence minister to emerge on the Indian scene. It was perhaps this chasm that led to the Indira Gandhi-Sam Manekshaw exchange in early 1971 about how to conduct the war for Bangladesh.
But paradoxically, even Manekshaw, for his characteristically confident posture, when it came to purely professional military advice, accepted the dictum of political supremacy and told the prime ministers that he would resign without a murmur if she so desired it. To her everlasting credit, Indira Gandhi went along with the military advice rendered to her and the rest is history.
It is instructive that the civilian establishment took the same Manekshaw, who gave India its most decisive military victory to task, for his off-the-cuff remark about what would have happened if he had opted to go to Pakistan after partition, and relegated him to obscurity till his demise in July this year.
India has had almost four decades of conventional peace barring the 1999 Kargil war, and while the Indian Army has been increasingly tasked with internal security duties, the military is still marginal to higher defence management and has little direct say in foreign policy or internal security formulation. Civilian control, increasingly exercised by the bureaucracy – be it the Ministry of External Affairs or the Defence Ministry – is the prevailing pattern and is a far from desirable situation. It is pertinent that the Kargil Committee Report headed by the doyen of the Indian strategic community, K Subrahmanyam, observed rather caustically:
"India is perhaps the only major democracy where the Armed Forces Headquarters are outside the apex governmental structure…the present obsolete system has perpetuated the culture of the British Imperial theatre system of an India Command, whereas what we need is a National Defence HQ…the status quo is often mistakenly defended as embodying civilian ascendancy over the armed forces, which is not the real issue. In fact, locating the Service HQ in the Government will further enhance civilian supremacy."
Over the years, the Indian military as an institution has been progressively downgraded in the hierarchy of government and within the caste-system of the state that has evolved, the civil servant of IAS pedigree being the truly blue-blooded, twice-born Brahmin with the IFS diplomat as a distant second. Among the uniformed fraternity, the police as represented by the IPS is emerging as the more preferred career option and this is reflected by the fact that the Indian Army alone has a shortage of over 11,000 officers, while the number of young Indians who aspire to join the civil services and the IPS is growing.
If the institutional interface between the Indian military and the civilian dispensation as represented by the political apex and the higher bureaucracy is limited, it is non-existent with the elected representative. Today the defence ministry and the defence secretary mediate almost all civil-military interaction and the ' fauj ' remains the eternal supplicant. The total subordination of the Indian ' fauj ' by the civilian entity is in direct contrast to the primacy that the
Pakistani counterpart has appropriated. Neither exigency is desirable for the equipoise that is being sought.
Pakistan's First Independent Weekly Paper.
October 17-23, 2008- Vol. XX, No. 35
The Friday Times, 72 FCC Gulberg 4, Lahore, Pakistan
Ph: 92-42-5763510; Fax: 92-42-5751025,
e-Mail: tft@lhr.comsats.net.pk
Revisiting civil-military relations
The ever supplicant 'fauj' in India
by C Uday Bhaskar
Over the years, the Indian military as an institution has been progressively downgraded in the hierarchy of government and within the caste-system of the state.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since independence, India's civil-military relations have always been perceived as the exception to the rule, specifically in the regional context. Neighbouring states such as Pakistan and Burma experienced different kinds of military domination over the civilian establishment. Even Bangladesh, after the assassination of Mujibur Rehman in 1975, joined the norm and the military became the dominant constituency.
This distinctive Indian trait, wherein the military internalised the tenet of civilian political supremacy in a seemingly chaotic but robust democracy, has been the subject of considerable study and has on occasion been referred to as a 'puzzle'. Many complex reasons have been advanced for this abiding pattern of the emergence of a totally apolitical and professional military. This even endured during the brief interregnum of the Emergency imposed by Indira Gandhi where in fairness to her, she made no attempt to involve the Army in her support.
The credit for ensuring this sanctity of civilian political primacy must go to the early Indian leadership – both political and military – who were influenced by the Gandhian spirit of the times. Then General KM Cariappa, the first Indian Army Chief, symbolised the apolitical and subordinate stance which the nascent Indian military leadership readily accepted as an article of faith. In contrast to what was happening in Pakistan where the Army loomed large, Pandit Nehru and his colleagues such as Sardar Patel and Rajagopalachari, among many others, had a stature and aura that commanded enormous admiration across the country.
In retrospect, it may be said that in the early decades, the concept of civilian supremacy to thwart a possible coup was taken to extreme ends, and the civilian elite kept the Indian 'fauj' at a disdainful distance. Perceived as the last vestige of the Raj, the Colonel Blimps were confined to the cantonments and Nehru is alleged to have famously observed that free India with its commitment to peace did not need a large military – which was necessary at best for aid to civil power during natural calamities and ceremonial duties to receive visiting
heads of state!
The first 15 years of the civil-military relationship were strained at the political level and Nehru's left-leaning defence minister, the acerbic Krishna Menon, exacerbated the divide. Concurrently, the senior bureaucracy ensured that the military was progressively nudged out of the framework of higher defence management. The original Ismay Plan had envisioned the creation of a top military structure that would advise the political leadership directly while allowing for commanders-in-chief to look after operational duties. In an
ill-advised move, the service chiefs of the time opted to wear both hats – that of individual C-in-Cs of their respective services and simultaneously Chiefs of Staff.
This led to the gradual distancing of the military as an institution from the Government of India. This is how Admiral Arun Prakash (retd), till recently Chairman Chiefs of Staff and Chief of Naval Staff, opines of the original Ismay intent:
"However, not only did this not happen, but within a short period of its implementation, the senior civil servants of that period intervened to completely distort the concept of 'civilian supremacy' to give it their own interpretation of 'bureaucratic control' over the armed forces. This was done by the simple expedient of designating the three Service HQ as 'Attached Offices' of the Department of Defence, giving them (as per the GoI Rules of Business) a status exactly on par with organisations such as the Salt Commissioner, Commissioner for Handicrafts, Central Reserve Police Force…"
Inept political handling of the Army in particular culminated in the debacle of the 1962 war with China, and soon thereafter, the political apex realised that the morale of the military had to be restored and the widely respected and quietly competent YB Chavan assumed office as the defence minister.
During his tenure, there was regular institutional contact between the minister, the service chiefs and the senior bureaucracy of the ministry, with the cabinet secretary also participating on occasion. But this normative style of functioning was short-lived and was enabled more due to the persona of Chavan.
The institutional chasm between the military and the civilian leadership grew and Indira Gandhi's own political insecurities did not allow an able and visible defence minister to emerge on the Indian scene. It was perhaps this chasm that led to the Indira Gandhi-Sam Manekshaw exchange in early 1971 about how to conduct the war for Bangladesh.
But paradoxically, even Manekshaw, for his characteristically confident posture, when it came to purely professional military advice, accepted the dictum of political supremacy and told the prime ministers that he would resign without a murmur if she so desired it. To her everlasting credit, Indira Gandhi went along with the military advice rendered to her and the rest is history.
It is instructive that the civilian establishment took the same Manekshaw, who gave India its most decisive military victory to task, for his off-the-cuff remark about what would have happened if he had opted to go to Pakistan after partition, and relegated him to obscurity till his demise in July this year.
India has had almost four decades of conventional peace barring the 1999 Kargil war, and while the Indian Army has been increasingly tasked with internal security duties, the military is still marginal to higher defence management and has little direct say in foreign policy or internal security formulation. Civilian control, increasingly exercised by the bureaucracy – be it the Ministry of External Affairs or the Defence Ministry – is the prevailing pattern and is a far from desirable situation. It is pertinent that the Kargil Committee Report headed by the doyen of the Indian strategic community, K Subrahmanyam, observed rather caustically:
"India is perhaps the only major democracy where the Armed Forces Headquarters are outside the apex governmental structure…the present obsolete system has perpetuated the culture of the British Imperial theatre system of an India Command, whereas what we need is a National Defence HQ…the status quo is often mistakenly defended as embodying civilian ascendancy over the armed forces, which is not the real issue. In fact, locating the Service HQ in the Government will further enhance civilian supremacy."
Over the years, the Indian military as an institution has been progressively downgraded in the hierarchy of government and within the caste-system of the state that has evolved, the civil servant of IAS pedigree being the truly blue-blooded, twice-born Brahmin with the IFS diplomat as a distant second. Among the uniformed fraternity, the police as represented by the IPS is emerging as the more preferred career option and this is reflected by the fact that the Indian Army alone has a shortage of over 11,000 officers, while the number of young Indians who aspire to join the civil services and the IPS is growing.
If the institutional interface between the Indian military and the civilian dispensation as represented by the political apex and the higher bureaucracy is limited, it is non-existent with the elected representative. Today the defence ministry and the defence secretary mediate almost all civil-military interaction and the ' fauj ' remains the eternal supplicant. The total subordination of the Indian ' fauj ' by the civilian entity is in direct contrast to the primacy that the
Pakistani counterpart has appropriated. Neither exigency is desirable for the equipoise that is being sought.
Sunday, May 17, 2009
Force divider by Gen VP Malik, Former COAS
The Indian EXPRESS
e edition – May 15, 2009.
http://epaper.indianexpress.com/IE/IEH/2009/05/15/INDEX.SHTML
Force divider
By Gen VP Malik, Former COAS
It’s hard for a frustrated and aggrieved military to remain apolitical The ‘advisory’to vote for a particular political party by a large ex-servicemen organisation during elections reflects a lack of confidence of the uniformed fraternity with the ruling alliance, and is easily exploited.
TWO recent events, the ham T handed sacking of the Army Chief General Rookmangud Katawal in Nepal, and an ‘advisory’ to all ex-servicemen (ESM) by the Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM) to vote for a particular political party/alliance in India, merit attention due to the sensitivity of the civil military relations in a democratic society.
The adverse political consequences of the Nepalese event are many: a setback to the national peace process and political instability, a constitutional divide over the authority of the president and prime minister, and Nepal’s foreign relations with India and China. No less important are its military consequences, which are a lack of trust and confidence between the civilian government and the military, and a divide within the military hierarchy.
Both these will have an impact on the command and control, discipline, morale and combat proficiency of the Nepal Army. Also, there is an erosion of the historic military-to-military cooperation between Nepal and India where traditionally, the army chiefs have enjoyed the honorary status of a chief in each other’s country.
The hot-headed civil and military approach to the absorption of Maoist military cadres was avoidable.
I wish they had studied a similar military transformation following the first post-apartheid national elections and the adoption of a new constitution in South Africa. The South African National Defence Force (SANDF) replaced the earlier South African Defence Force (SADF) to include personnel and equipment from the former defence and homelands forces, as well as personnel from the former guerrilla forces of the political parties such as the African National Congress’s Umkhontowe Sizwe, the Pan Africanist Congress’ APLA and the Self-Protection Units of the Inkatha Freedom Party. This process started in 1994 was completed in 2004 with the integrated personnel having been incorporated into a slightly modified structure.
Today, the SANDF is an effective force in South Africa, also making a substantial contribution to United Nations peacekeeping operations in Congo, Burundi and Sudan.
The ‘advisory’ and active lobbying to vote for a particular political party/alliance by a large ESM organisation during elections in India is not as serious as the Nepalese event, but is still unprecedented. It is not that men and women in the armed forces, and after retirement, do not vote, or that ESM do not join politics. But such an ‘advisory’ reflects a collective unhappiness and lack of confidence of the uniformed fraternity with the ruling alliance and is easily exploited. Considering that the ESM retain an umbilical connection with serving soldiers and maintain traditional camaraderie and kinship so essential in the profession of arms, many people would consider it as a step towards politicisation of the armed forces.
The IESM took this step primarily on account of the 6th Central Pay Commission (6CPC) Report and its ham-handed, disdainful processing by the government in which representatives of the uniformed fraternity were deliberately kept out. The government delayed resolving serious concerns of the armed forces personnel and pensioners on the disparities, anomalies, and demand for one rank one pension. Little attention was paid to the advice of the service chiefs, several former chiefs, and to the ethos and functioning of the armed forces. Meanwhile, an impression got built that the ruling political leadership is going along with the bureaucracy and has little or no interest in the emoluments and hierarchal status of the armed forces in the government and society.
This felt injustice led to the birth of the IESM, which organised rallies, fast unto death agitations, and surrender of war and gallantry medals to the president to draw public and political attention.
The discontent and street protests by the armed forces veterans has exposed fissures in the civil military relationship and thus led to the political manipulation of the latter.
The belated efforts to resolve the aforesaid issues have only confirmed the perception that the government acts under political pressure; being disciplined and apolitical counts little when political supremacy over the armed forces degenerates into civil servants’ supremacy.
This brings me to the core issue of the civil-military relations.
Civil-military relations form an essential component of a nation’s security system. The Indian armed forces inherited a legacy of maintaining an apolitical stance and have steadfastly preserved it through the years. With their oath to the Constitution, they have stuck to the concept of loyalty to the constitution ally elected government, not to any particular political party or alliance. The credit goes not only to the military and its traditions, but also to the political leadership, our egalitarian society and other well-established democratic institutions.
In India, there is little awareness about the armed forces: their systems, procedures, traditions and the issues and concerns that affect their functioning. During a war, the armed forces are glorified, greatly respected, even treated with awe But after the war, they feel forgot ten and neglected by the political class and society. Since the ruling elite in the country consisting o politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists have stopped sending their kith and kin to the armed forces, the distance between the civil society including the aforementioned three categories and the armed forces has increased progressively.
Morris Janowitz, in his book The Professional Soldier: A Soldier and Political Portrait, has emphasised that ‘civilian leadership includes not only the political direction of the military but the prevention of the growth of frustration in the profession, of felt injustice, and inflexibility under the weight of its responsibilities.’ If we wish to maintain good civil military relations to optimise national security, our political leaders must realise this important responsibility and ensure that (a) there is no feeling of frustration or injustice in the military profession and (b) that the armed forces are not politicised.
------------
THE END
e edition – May 15, 2009.
http://epaper.indianexpress.com/IE/IEH/2009/05/15/INDEX.SHTML
Force divider
By Gen VP Malik, Former COAS
It’s hard for a frustrated and aggrieved military to remain apolitical The ‘advisory’to vote for a particular political party by a large ex-servicemen organisation during elections reflects a lack of confidence of the uniformed fraternity with the ruling alliance, and is easily exploited.
TWO recent events, the ham T handed sacking of the Army Chief General Rookmangud Katawal in Nepal, and an ‘advisory’ to all ex-servicemen (ESM) by the Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM) to vote for a particular political party/alliance in India, merit attention due to the sensitivity of the civil military relations in a democratic society.
The adverse political consequences of the Nepalese event are many: a setback to the national peace process and political instability, a constitutional divide over the authority of the president and prime minister, and Nepal’s foreign relations with India and China. No less important are its military consequences, which are a lack of trust and confidence between the civilian government and the military, and a divide within the military hierarchy.
Both these will have an impact on the command and control, discipline, morale and combat proficiency of the Nepal Army. Also, there is an erosion of the historic military-to-military cooperation between Nepal and India where traditionally, the army chiefs have enjoyed the honorary status of a chief in each other’s country.
The hot-headed civil and military approach to the absorption of Maoist military cadres was avoidable.
I wish they had studied a similar military transformation following the first post-apartheid national elections and the adoption of a new constitution in South Africa. The South African National Defence Force (SANDF) replaced the earlier South African Defence Force (SADF) to include personnel and equipment from the former defence and homelands forces, as well as personnel from the former guerrilla forces of the political parties such as the African National Congress’s Umkhontowe Sizwe, the Pan Africanist Congress’ APLA and the Self-Protection Units of the Inkatha Freedom Party. This process started in 1994 was completed in 2004 with the integrated personnel having been incorporated into a slightly modified structure.
Today, the SANDF is an effective force in South Africa, also making a substantial contribution to United Nations peacekeeping operations in Congo, Burundi and Sudan.
The ‘advisory’ and active lobbying to vote for a particular political party/alliance by a large ESM organisation during elections in India is not as serious as the Nepalese event, but is still unprecedented. It is not that men and women in the armed forces, and after retirement, do not vote, or that ESM do not join politics. But such an ‘advisory’ reflects a collective unhappiness and lack of confidence of the uniformed fraternity with the ruling alliance and is easily exploited. Considering that the ESM retain an umbilical connection with serving soldiers and maintain traditional camaraderie and kinship so essential in the profession of arms, many people would consider it as a step towards politicisation of the armed forces.
The IESM took this step primarily on account of the 6th Central Pay Commission (6CPC) Report and its ham-handed, disdainful processing by the government in which representatives of the uniformed fraternity were deliberately kept out. The government delayed resolving serious concerns of the armed forces personnel and pensioners on the disparities, anomalies, and demand for one rank one pension. Little attention was paid to the advice of the service chiefs, several former chiefs, and to the ethos and functioning of the armed forces. Meanwhile, an impression got built that the ruling political leadership is going along with the bureaucracy and has little or no interest in the emoluments and hierarchal status of the armed forces in the government and society.
This felt injustice led to the birth of the IESM, which organised rallies, fast unto death agitations, and surrender of war and gallantry medals to the president to draw public and political attention.
The discontent and street protests by the armed forces veterans has exposed fissures in the civil military relationship and thus led to the political manipulation of the latter.
The belated efforts to resolve the aforesaid issues have only confirmed the perception that the government acts under political pressure; being disciplined and apolitical counts little when political supremacy over the armed forces degenerates into civil servants’ supremacy.
This brings me to the core issue of the civil-military relations.
Civil-military relations form an essential component of a nation’s security system. The Indian armed forces inherited a legacy of maintaining an apolitical stance and have steadfastly preserved it through the years. With their oath to the Constitution, they have stuck to the concept of loyalty to the constitution ally elected government, not to any particular political party or alliance. The credit goes not only to the military and its traditions, but also to the political leadership, our egalitarian society and other well-established democratic institutions.
In India, there is little awareness about the armed forces: their systems, procedures, traditions and the issues and concerns that affect their functioning. During a war, the armed forces are glorified, greatly respected, even treated with awe But after the war, they feel forgot ten and neglected by the political class and society. Since the ruling elite in the country consisting o politicians, bureaucrats and industrialists have stopped sending their kith and kin to the armed forces, the distance between the civil society including the aforementioned three categories and the armed forces has increased progressively.
Morris Janowitz, in his book The Professional Soldier: A Soldier and Political Portrait, has emphasised that ‘civilian leadership includes not only the political direction of the military but the prevention of the growth of frustration in the profession, of felt injustice, and inflexibility under the weight of its responsibilities.’ If we wish to maintain good civil military relations to optimise national security, our political leaders must realise this important responsibility and ensure that (a) there is no feeling of frustration or injustice in the military profession and (b) that the armed forces are not politicised.
------------
THE END
Views by Brig CS Kamboj on Col Ravi Bedi mail of Hind sight
From: ravi bedi nda32ravibedi@gmail.com
Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 2:07 PM
In hind sight,
was the IESM's backing a particular political party a good thing or not? And what should the future course be for ESM's
Ravi Bedi
Lt Col Ravi Bedi
Chief Functionary, Youth Technical Training Society,
13(GF) Karuna Sadan, Sec 11 Chandigarh
Ph 91-9417068048
Res: 1069 Sec 39B Chandigarh- India
(Reference question by Col Ravi Bedi in the email above - it was IESM Advisory which compelled the Congress (and UPA) to announce support for OROP in Punjab during their election campaign and compelled them to announced the formation of a Special Committee to examine OROP.
I have received many rude emails accusing IESM, 'Report My Signal ' and me as mouth piece of BJP. While I and majority of supporters of IESM must have voted for BJP (and most of you also must have voted for some party or the other), I assure the members that IESM, REPORT MY SIGNAL and Chander Kamboj, were apolitical and will continue to be apolitical like most of you who voted for other parties.
IESM, Report My Signal and I did what we felt was the need of the hour. I couldn't careless for those abusive emails being sent to me.
I consider those rude emails as immature and childish act, not worth responding.
It is time we all forget the pre-election moods of ours, again stand shoulder to shoulder, and draw fresh strategy to achieve what we desire for -
Justice to Defence Services.
I feel it will be much easier for us to achieve our aim now.
I feel we may not have to go into agitation mode once again.
Some of you may not admit openly, but if you analyse dispassionately, The media, all political parties and the Indian nation as a whole are now well aware of problems of Defence Services - thanks to the agitation mode of IESM and the voting advisory issued by IESM. - Chander Kamboj)
-----------
THE END
Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 2:07 PM
In hind sight,
was the IESM's backing a particular political party a good thing or not? And what should the future course be for ESM's
Ravi Bedi
Lt Col Ravi Bedi
Chief Functionary, Youth Technical Training Society,
13(GF) Karuna Sadan, Sec 11 Chandigarh
Ph 91-9417068048
Res: 1069 Sec 39B Chandigarh- India
(Reference question by Col Ravi Bedi in the email above - it was IESM Advisory which compelled the Congress (and UPA) to announce support for OROP in Punjab during their election campaign and compelled them to announced the formation of a Special Committee to examine OROP.
I have received many rude emails accusing IESM, 'Report My Signal ' and me as mouth piece of BJP. While I and majority of supporters of IESM must have voted for BJP (and most of you also must have voted for some party or the other), I assure the members that IESM, REPORT MY SIGNAL and Chander Kamboj, were apolitical and will continue to be apolitical like most of you who voted for other parties.
IESM, Report My Signal and I did what we felt was the need of the hour. I couldn't careless for those abusive emails being sent to me.
I consider those rude emails as immature and childish act, not worth responding.
It is time we all forget the pre-election moods of ours, again stand shoulder to shoulder, and draw fresh strategy to achieve what we desire for -
Justice to Defence Services.
I feel it will be much easier for us to achieve our aim now.
I feel we may not have to go into agitation mode once again.
Some of you may not admit openly, but if you analyse dispassionately, The media, all political parties and the Indian nation as a whole are now well aware of problems of Defence Services - thanks to the agitation mode of IESM and the voting advisory issued by IESM. - Chander Kamboj)
-----------
THE END
Friday, May 15, 2009
Admiral SM Nanda's last journey..by Cdr Arun Saigal
The Adm passed away in Fortis Hospital Vasant Kunj at about 2300 hrs on Mon 11 may. The Navy made all arrangements for his funeral with full military honours as I believe it is laid down in a NAVY ORDER.
The Navy was very efficient and its conduct very laudable.
The body was brought from the hospital to his younger son Lt Cdr (retd) Suresh Nanda's house at 4, Prithvi Raj Road at about 1200 hrs where Commodores in No 2s stood vigil till it was loaded on to the gun carriage by Pall bearers in No 2s.
Between 1315 & 1345 wreaths were laid personally by CNS , COAS & VCAS. CNS & COAS were accompanied by respective spouses who condoled with Mrs Nanda.
At Brar Square CNS was again present to lead the laying of wreaths. Practically all Vice Admirals , a large number of other senior officers, officers and men were present.
The guard and band lent due solemnity to the occasion.
A large number of retd officers - Adm Tahiliani, Air Chief Marshal Tipnis- among them also laid wreaths, Col Kirit Joshipura did so on behalf of the IESM.
I felt that the Navy gave its grand old man a very befitting farewell. His demise marks the end of an era.
The Prayer meet ( chautha/uthala) was held yesterday 14th May from 1600-1700 hrs at the Kamani auditorium. It was chock-a-block with family, friends and retd naval officeres of all ranks.
After 30 minutes of Bhajans , the children and grandchildren paid tributes. The last speaker was VAdm 'Mihir Roy who was the late Admiral's DNI in 1971 and also knew him well. He spoke very well. (By the way his article about the Admiral's achievements was published in Indian Express yesterdy. Let me know if you need a copy) .
Marshal of the Air Force, Arjan Singh, entered the hall, went up and saluted the Admiral's photo and offered flowers.
CNS could not come as he was busy with a foreign delegation but Mrs Mehta represented him.
Ministers Kamal Nath and Anand Sharma also came for the prayer meet.
The Admiral led a full and eventful life ( 10 Oct 1925-11 May 2009) . He went on his final journey in a befitting manner, leaving behind his footprints in the sands of time.
Regards
Arun
ps
Most laudable was the way the Navy represented by INS India took charge and conducted the funeral from A to zee.
The Navy was very efficient and its conduct very laudable.
The body was brought from the hospital to his younger son Lt Cdr (retd) Suresh Nanda's house at 4, Prithvi Raj Road at about 1200 hrs where Commodores in No 2s stood vigil till it was loaded on to the gun carriage by Pall bearers in No 2s.
Between 1315 & 1345 wreaths were laid personally by CNS , COAS & VCAS. CNS & COAS were accompanied by respective spouses who condoled with Mrs Nanda.
At Brar Square CNS was again present to lead the laying of wreaths. Practically all Vice Admirals , a large number of other senior officers, officers and men were present.
The guard and band lent due solemnity to the occasion.
A large number of retd officers - Adm Tahiliani, Air Chief Marshal Tipnis- among them also laid wreaths, Col Kirit Joshipura did so on behalf of the IESM.
I felt that the Navy gave its grand old man a very befitting farewell. His demise marks the end of an era.
The Prayer meet ( chautha/uthala) was held yesterday 14th May from 1600-1700 hrs at the Kamani auditorium. It was chock-a-block with family, friends and retd naval officeres of all ranks.
After 30 minutes of Bhajans , the children and grandchildren paid tributes. The last speaker was VAdm 'Mihir Roy who was the late Admiral's DNI in 1971 and also knew him well. He spoke very well. (By the way his article about the Admiral's achievements was published in Indian Express yesterdy. Let me know if you need a copy) .
Marshal of the Air Force, Arjan Singh, entered the hall, went up and saluted the Admiral's photo and offered flowers.
CNS could not come as he was busy with a foreign delegation but Mrs Mehta represented him.
Ministers Kamal Nath and Anand Sharma also came for the prayer meet.
The Admiral led a full and eventful life ( 10 Oct 1925-11 May 2009) . He went on his final journey in a befitting manner, leaving behind his footprints in the sands of time.
Regards
Arun
ps
Most laudable was the way the Navy represented by INS India took charge and conducted the funeral from A to zee.
Welfare of ex-servicemen takes a backseat
Hindustan Times
Delhi, May 15, 2009
Noida Live
http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Default.aspx
Welfare of ex-servicemen takes a backseat
IN UTTAR Pradesh, about 75 per cent posts of the Zila Sainik Adhikari have been lying vacant for the last five years. Hence there are no jobs for ex-servicemen. As a result no welfare activities could be carried out in the state for them.
This was stated by Col (retd) Prakash Bhatt of Noida Veterans Forum, at a meeting organised at Arun Vihar Community Centre last Sunday.
Noida Veterans Forum is a newly formed body of retired Army officers working for the betterment of the ex-servicemen.
It is also in the process of setting up a helpline for veterans,war-widows and their dependents in distress.
Addressing the gathering of exservicemen, Bhatt held the Directorate General of Recruitment (DGR) responsible for having failed to do its job.
“Only 10 per cent of the retiring personnel could be trained by the DGR in 2005,while only 30 per cent could be given jobs,” he remarked.
“Creation of Army,Air Force and Navy placement cells substantiate the fact that DGR has been ineffective. But since all of these are not working in synergy, much is left to be desired,” he added.
Col Bhatt also spoke about the discriminatory rules that exist for Noida ECHS beneficiaries,wherein a Noida resident is not entitled for treatment at a hos pital in Delhi.
He also stressed that annuity for gallantry award winners should be made uniform in all states.
Allaying the fears of the retired soldiers, Brig (retd) K.P.Singh Deo, former Defence Minister,who is also the secretary, Ex-servicemen Department, All India Congress Committee, stated that the Central government has approved the formation of a separate pay commission for defence services. Besides an ex-servicemen commission will also be formed.
Agreeing that the state of most Sainik Boards is appalling, Deo said that the ex-servicemen commission is being formed precisely to improve the condition of Sainik Boards at central, state and district level.
------------
Delhi, May 15, 2009
Noida Live
http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Default.aspx
Welfare of ex-servicemen takes a backseat
IN UTTAR Pradesh, about 75 per cent posts of the Zila Sainik Adhikari have been lying vacant for the last five years. Hence there are no jobs for ex-servicemen. As a result no welfare activities could be carried out in the state for them.
This was stated by Col (retd) Prakash Bhatt of Noida Veterans Forum, at a meeting organised at Arun Vihar Community Centre last Sunday.
Noida Veterans Forum is a newly formed body of retired Army officers working for the betterment of the ex-servicemen.
It is also in the process of setting up a helpline for veterans,war-widows and their dependents in distress.
Addressing the gathering of exservicemen, Bhatt held the Directorate General of Recruitment (DGR) responsible for having failed to do its job.
“Only 10 per cent of the retiring personnel could be trained by the DGR in 2005,while only 30 per cent could be given jobs,” he remarked.
“Creation of Army,Air Force and Navy placement cells substantiate the fact that DGR has been ineffective. But since all of these are not working in synergy, much is left to be desired,” he added.
Col Bhatt also spoke about the discriminatory rules that exist for Noida ECHS beneficiaries,wherein a Noida resident is not entitled for treatment at a hos pital in Delhi.
He also stressed that annuity for gallantry award winners should be made uniform in all states.
Allaying the fears of the retired soldiers, Brig (retd) K.P.Singh Deo, former Defence Minister,who is also the secretary, Ex-servicemen Department, All India Congress Committee, stated that the Central government has approved the formation of a separate pay commission for defence services. Besides an ex-servicemen commission will also be formed.
Agreeing that the state of most Sainik Boards is appalling, Deo said that the ex-servicemen commission is being formed precisely to improve the condition of Sainik Boards at central, state and district level.
------------
Admiral SM Nanda funeral
Dear Friends,
Jai Hind.
Some of the emails received from members are reproduced below.
On behalf of YOU ALL, 'i' thank all the members who sent these emails to us.
In Service of Indian Military Veterans
Chander Kamboj.
---------
From: Cdr Sharan Ahuja
To: stg_comm
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:13 AM
Subject: [Stg_Comm] Col Kirit Joshipura placed the wreath on behalf of IESM at Admiral SM Nanda's funeral on 12 May 2009
Dear All,
Wreath on behalf of the IESM was laid by our rep Col Kirit Joshipura the eldest Veteran of the IESM Core Group at Delhi on the funeral of the last of the 71 heroes "Veteran" Admiral SM Nanda Padma Vibhushan , PVSM , AVSM on 12 May 2009 at Brar Square.
IESM Veterans family deeply mourns the passing away of an era and prays for his soul to rest in peace.
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Group
----------
Jai Hind.
Some of the emails received from members are reproduced below.
On behalf of YOU ALL, 'i' thank all the members who sent these emails to us.
In Service of Indian Military Veterans
Chander Kamboj.
---------
From: Cdr Sharan Ahuja
To: stg_comm
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:13 AM
Subject: [Stg_Comm] Col Kirit Joshipura placed the wreath on behalf of IESM at Admiral SM Nanda's funeral on 12 May 2009
Dear All,
Wreath on behalf of the IESM was laid by our rep Col Kirit Joshipura the eldest Veteran of the IESM Core Group at Delhi on the funeral of the last of the 71 heroes "Veteran" Admiral SM Nanda Padma Vibhushan , PVSM , AVSM on 12 May 2009 at Brar Square.
IESM Veterans family deeply mourns the passing away of an era and prays for his soul to rest in peace.
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Group
----------
Karanch Burned for 7 Days...
'Karachi burned for seven days'
January 18, 2007
Admiral S M Nanda, who led the Indian Navy during the 1971 war and vanquished the Pakistan navy, passed into the ages on Tuesday.
Two years ago, the admiral granted rediff.com an exclusive and extensive interview about the 1971 war. We reproduce it in his memory.
'And if war comes again, I assure you that we shall carry it right into the enemy's biggest ports, like Karachi. I know this harbour quite well for I started working there. And you have my word that given the opportunity, the Indian Navy will make the world's biggest bonfire of it.'
-- Admiral S M Nanda, then Chief of the Naval Staff, at a press conference in Jamnagar, November 1971.
The oldest of seven children, Sardarilal Matharadas Nanda was born in Punjab on October 10, 1915, but grew up at Manora, a small island off Karachi where his father was posted. Commissioned as an acting sublieutenant in the Royal Indian Naval Volunteer Reserve, he climbed up through the ranks to become the Chief of Naval Staff in March 1970. A year later, India and Pakistan went to war.
In a move that made naval history, Admiral Nanda towed three Russian missile boats, which did not have the necessary range to reach Karachi and return, halfway out to sea before unleashing them on Pakistan's primary port. Karachi burned for seven days. The admiral had kept his promise.
1971 War: 35 Years On
In an exclusive interview with Deputy Managing Editor Ramananda Sengupta in his plush home on New Delhi's Prithviraj Road, the admiral, whose memory at 91 is enviable, recollects how he braved government and military apathy and opposition to become The Man Who Bombed Karachi, which is also the title of his autobiography.
Let us start from the beginning. After being kept out of the earlier wars, why was the navy brought into play in 1971?
During the 1965 war and 1962 war with China, the Navy was kept in Bombay. We didn't do anything. With the result that nobody bothered about the navy, and everyone thought it was an ornamental service.
During my time as the chief, I found, to start with, that the emphasis was all the time on the requirements of the army and air force, and not of the navy.
In 1971, when the three service chiefs would meet the prime minister (Indira Gandhi), she would ask the army chief first, then the air force chief, about their views on the situation. And then she would look at her watch and say, 'Admiral, you have anything to say?'
And I'd say 'No ma'am, I have nothing to say.'
But inside I was thinking that you can write off the navy if does not take part. That was not acceptable to me. So I had made up my mind that if there was war, the navy would take part.
One day, when things hotted up in Bengal, after one such meeting, same questions, same last query, I said told her that I would like to see her in her office.
'Come over,' she said. We were both in South Block. I told her 'Madam, things are hotting up, and there is a possibility of war breaking out anytime. I have made up my mind that I am going to attack Karachi. I want political clearance from you. I don't want to be told at the last minute that I cannot do it. Militarily it is my responsibility.'
She thought a bit, and then said, 'Well Admiral, if there's a war, there's war.'
'Thank you very much madam, I have got my answer,' I replied.
So I called my directors of naval operations and naval intelligence, said I have spoken to the prime minister, and I think we have clearance to plan what to do if the war breaks out. I am planning to attack Karachi, and we've got to make preparations.
Everybody looked at me, and they said Karachi is a very heavily defended port. They've got six inch guns, while our guns are only four inch. So we will be well within their range before they come into our range. So I said we have these Russian-made Osa Class missile boats with Styx missiles, which are for harbour defence. What is their range? What are their capabilities? Do they have ship to surface missiles?
First they said the boats did not have the range to reach Karachi and return. Then they said if we hit Karachi with our missiles, then there will an uproar all over the world over the civilian casualties.
S
o I said look, 'What is a ship? It is steel. A missile locks on to steel.' I knew Karachi quite well. They have a one-mile long area on the coast which have oil tanks, made of steel. I said 'Why can't let our missiles lock on the oil tanks?' They were not so sure.
Now a soldier must have faith in his weapons systems. I needed to test these missiles. But where was the target going to come from? So I asked the Russians how they tested their missiles. They said we have a special type of a ship with compartments in it, so that if a missile hits it, does not sink. Can we get a ship like that, I asked. It will take us two years to build it, they replied. I said forget it.
We had a British made practice target, which was made out of a hull on which is fitted a large frame, or target, on which we fire the guns. So I had some aluminum balls prepared to be fitted on the target. Then we towed this target some 30 miles out to sea, and came back.
Then I got into a helicopter, and gave the order to fire the missile. It went right through the target, 30 miles away. Then I called all the ships to close in and see the effect for themselves. That put their faith into the system. Having done that, we had further meetings.
The commander of the Western Naval Command still didn't believe in the system, and opposed it, saying it was too much of a risk.
On December 3, the Pakistan air force attacked us in the evening. By that time, we had our own forces, including the three missile boats, ready. But they did not have the range to go into Karachi and come back.
So on the evening of December 4, we towed these boats out half the way, they dropped their tow lines and raced towards Karachi.
We hit Karachi, sank two warships and damaged a third.
We did this again on December 8, and sank two more ships.
One or two missiles hit the oil tanks near the harbour, which set the entire complex ablaze.
Karachi burned for seven days.
What did we do with our aircraft carrier, Vikrant?
Vikrant is a funny story. During the 1965 war, it was in dry dock, and could not be used. During 1971, there was a crack in a boiler, because of which they could not fire the steam catapult needed to send out the aircraft.
Three months before the war, Naval Headquarters decided it was not operable at all. The aircraft were moved ashore. Then I went out to Bombay, and the captain explained that if the aircraft could not be catapulted out, it would fall into the sea, and kill everybody.
I said 'What's the bloody point of having an aircraft carrier if it cannot be used during a war?'
So I decided to take a risk. I ordered a steel band to be put around the boiler which had a crack. Then I said we need to get to a place where we have strong winds, and check out whether the aircraft falls into the sea or not.
I took the carrier out to sea myself and asked the engineer officer, the chief of the Western Naval Command, Admiral Krishnan, ( ??? ) and M K Roy, Director of Naval Intelligence, to come with me.
My staff said I must get permission from Naval HQ. I said I am the Chief of Naval Staff, you don't need to ask anybody else. I am giving the orders and I am taking the responsibility for them.
We waited till the wind was strong enough. The aircraft was finally ordered to take off. And it was a success. We did that three or four times.
But there was still aversion. Somebody said 'Sir, there are people in the boiler room, and if it blows up it will kill all of them.'
So I said how does the boiler work? It works on oil. How does it come into the boiler? There is a pipe which brings it in. Who controls the valve of that pipe? The tanks are down below, but the valve is on the upper deck.
I said vacate the boiler room. Have someone man the valves. So if the boiler blows up or catches fire, it will damage the boiler room, but not the men. So that was done.
You took the Vikrant to the other coast, into the Bay of Bengal?
Yes, because people were still not sure how to use an aircraft carrier. They thought it was taking too much of a risk, particularly with a crack in the boiler. I discussed the issue with my engineer officer, and he said 'Sir, whatever you order, we will do.' This was about August or September, before the war began.
So I said we have to take the risk. We discussed all possible scenarios. They wanted to keep the Vikrant in Bombay, but I said no, and sent it to Cochin. Then when things started hotting up, I sent her to Madras. The aircraft, which were kept ashore, were flown to Madras. And we were operational.
January 18, 2007
Admiral S M Nanda, who led the Indian Navy during the 1971 war and vanquished the Pakistan navy, passed into the ages on Tuesday.
Two years ago, the admiral granted rediff.com an exclusive and extensive interview about the 1971 war. We reproduce it in his memory.
'And if war comes again, I assure you that we shall carry it right into the enemy's biggest ports, like Karachi. I know this harbour quite well for I started working there. And you have my word that given the opportunity, the Indian Navy will make the world's biggest bonfire of it.'
-- Admiral S M Nanda, then Chief of the Naval Staff, at a press conference in Jamnagar, November 1971.
The oldest of seven children, Sardarilal Matharadas Nanda was born in Punjab on October 10, 1915, but grew up at Manora, a small island off Karachi where his father was posted. Commissioned as an acting sublieutenant in the Royal Indian Naval Volunteer Reserve, he climbed up through the ranks to become the Chief of Naval Staff in March 1970. A year later, India and Pakistan went to war.
In a move that made naval history, Admiral Nanda towed three Russian missile boats, which did not have the necessary range to reach Karachi and return, halfway out to sea before unleashing them on Pakistan's primary port. Karachi burned for seven days. The admiral had kept his promise.
1971 War: 35 Years On
In an exclusive interview with Deputy Managing Editor Ramananda Sengupta in his plush home on New Delhi's Prithviraj Road, the admiral, whose memory at 91 is enviable, recollects how he braved government and military apathy and opposition to become The Man Who Bombed Karachi, which is also the title of his autobiography.
Let us start from the beginning. After being kept out of the earlier wars, why was the navy brought into play in 1971?
During the 1965 war and 1962 war with China, the Navy was kept in Bombay. We didn't do anything. With the result that nobody bothered about the navy, and everyone thought it was an ornamental service.
During my time as the chief, I found, to start with, that the emphasis was all the time on the requirements of the army and air force, and not of the navy.
In 1971, when the three service chiefs would meet the prime minister (Indira Gandhi), she would ask the army chief first, then the air force chief, about their views on the situation. And then she would look at her watch and say, 'Admiral, you have anything to say?'
And I'd say 'No ma'am, I have nothing to say.'
But inside I was thinking that you can write off the navy if does not take part. That was not acceptable to me. So I had made up my mind that if there was war, the navy would take part.
One day, when things hotted up in Bengal, after one such meeting, same questions, same last query, I said told her that I would like to see her in her office.
'Come over,' she said. We were both in South Block. I told her 'Madam, things are hotting up, and there is a possibility of war breaking out anytime. I have made up my mind that I am going to attack Karachi. I want political clearance from you. I don't want to be told at the last minute that I cannot do it. Militarily it is my responsibility.'
She thought a bit, and then said, 'Well Admiral, if there's a war, there's war.'
'Thank you very much madam, I have got my answer,' I replied.
So I called my directors of naval operations and naval intelligence, said I have spoken to the prime minister, and I think we have clearance to plan what to do if the war breaks out. I am planning to attack Karachi, and we've got to make preparations.
Everybody looked at me, and they said Karachi is a very heavily defended port. They've got six inch guns, while our guns are only four inch. So we will be well within their range before they come into our range. So I said we have these Russian-made Osa Class missile boats with Styx missiles, which are for harbour defence. What is their range? What are their capabilities? Do they have ship to surface missiles?
First they said the boats did not have the range to reach Karachi and return. Then they said if we hit Karachi with our missiles, then there will an uproar all over the world over the civilian casualties.
S
o I said look, 'What is a ship? It is steel. A missile locks on to steel.' I knew Karachi quite well. They have a one-mile long area on the coast which have oil tanks, made of steel. I said 'Why can't let our missiles lock on the oil tanks?' They were not so sure.
Now a soldier must have faith in his weapons systems. I needed to test these missiles. But where was the target going to come from? So I asked the Russians how they tested their missiles. They said we have a special type of a ship with compartments in it, so that if a missile hits it, does not sink. Can we get a ship like that, I asked. It will take us two years to build it, they replied. I said forget it.
We had a British made practice target, which was made out of a hull on which is fitted a large frame, or target, on which we fire the guns. So I had some aluminum balls prepared to be fitted on the target. Then we towed this target some 30 miles out to sea, and came back.
Then I got into a helicopter, and gave the order to fire the missile. It went right through the target, 30 miles away. Then I called all the ships to close in and see the effect for themselves. That put their faith into the system. Having done that, we had further meetings.
The commander of the Western Naval Command still didn't believe in the system, and opposed it, saying it was too much of a risk.
On December 3, the Pakistan air force attacked us in the evening. By that time, we had our own forces, including the three missile boats, ready. But they did not have the range to go into Karachi and come back.
So on the evening of December 4, we towed these boats out half the way, they dropped their tow lines and raced towards Karachi.
We hit Karachi, sank two warships and damaged a third.
We did this again on December 8, and sank two more ships.
One or two missiles hit the oil tanks near the harbour, which set the entire complex ablaze.
Karachi burned for seven days.
What did we do with our aircraft carrier, Vikrant?
Vikrant is a funny story. During the 1965 war, it was in dry dock, and could not be used. During 1971, there was a crack in a boiler, because of which they could not fire the steam catapult needed to send out the aircraft.
Three months before the war, Naval Headquarters decided it was not operable at all. The aircraft were moved ashore. Then I went out to Bombay, and the captain explained that if the aircraft could not be catapulted out, it would fall into the sea, and kill everybody.
I said 'What's the bloody point of having an aircraft carrier if it cannot be used during a war?'
So I decided to take a risk. I ordered a steel band to be put around the boiler which had a crack. Then I said we need to get to a place where we have strong winds, and check out whether the aircraft falls into the sea or not.
I took the carrier out to sea myself and asked the engineer officer, the chief of the Western Naval Command, Admiral Krishnan, ( ??? ) and M K Roy, Director of Naval Intelligence, to come with me.
My staff said I must get permission from Naval HQ. I said I am the Chief of Naval Staff, you don't need to ask anybody else. I am giving the orders and I am taking the responsibility for them.
We waited till the wind was strong enough. The aircraft was finally ordered to take off. And it was a success. We did that three or four times.
But there was still aversion. Somebody said 'Sir, there are people in the boiler room, and if it blows up it will kill all of them.'
So I said how does the boiler work? It works on oil. How does it come into the boiler? There is a pipe which brings it in. Who controls the valve of that pipe? The tanks are down below, but the valve is on the upper deck.
I said vacate the boiler room. Have someone man the valves. So if the boiler blows up or catches fire, it will damage the boiler room, but not the men. So that was done.
You took the Vikrant to the other coast, into the Bay of Bengal?
Yes, because people were still not sure how to use an aircraft carrier. They thought it was taking too much of a risk, particularly with a crack in the boiler. I discussed the issue with my engineer officer, and he said 'Sir, whatever you order, we will do.' This was about August or September, before the war began.
So I said we have to take the risk. We discussed all possible scenarios. They wanted to keep the Vikrant in Bombay, but I said no, and sent it to Cochin. Then when things started hotting up, I sent her to Madras. The aircraft, which were kept ashore, were flown to Madras. And we were operational.
Thursday, May 14, 2009
Views by Col Kirit Joshipura on Govt calling only pro orgn
Dear Veterans,
It is indeed painful to see disunity among ESM communiy even as INDIA and PAKISAN are planning to put up a united fight against TERRORISTS..And mind you all, that we too are fighting terrorists -- of course -of different type, which are much more dangerous for our tribe IN PARTICULAR AND COUNTRY IN GENERAL.
Someone whispers in my ears hat his is all for pers/ parallel agenda.And, rest assure that generations of PBOR and faujis would never excuse us for this SIN.
With malice towards none and regards to all.
kirit
It is indeed painful to see disunity among ESM communiy even as INDIA and PAKISAN are planning to put up a united fight against TERRORISTS..And mind you all, that we too are fighting terrorists -- of course -of different type, which are much more dangerous for our tribe IN PARTICULAR AND COUNTRY IN GENERAL.
Someone whispers in my ears hat his is all for pers/ parallel agenda.And, rest assure that generations of PBOR and faujis would never excuse us for this SIN.
With malice towards none and regards to all.
kirit
Views by veteran Hemi Bhagat 1st JSW on IESL Demystified
hemibhagat@yahoo.co.in>
dateThu, May 14, 2009 at 7:51 AM
subjectRe: IESL Demystified by Lt Col James Kanagaraj
Good God They have come back after all the drubbing they got earlier.They must be shameless and a big slur to the exservivemen community.Reminds me of the time when Timmy resigened as Cheif and Kaul rushed a msg to Menon to say that he would back Menon and not Timmy .That was nearly fifty years ago
dateThu, May 14, 2009 at 7:51 AM
subjectRe: IESL Demystified by Lt Col James Kanagaraj
Good God They have come back after all the drubbing they got earlier.They must be shameless and a big slur to the exservivemen community.Reminds me of the time when Timmy resigened as Cheif and Kaul rushed a msg to Menon to say that he would back Menon and not Timmy .That was nearly fifty years ago
Mail from cdr Arun Saigal ..thanks IESM for placing the Wreath
Thanks for the info. It was a great gesture by IESM.
I will convey it to the Nanda family
Regards
Arun
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Rakesh Prasad Chaturvedi wrote:
Kirit Joshipura represented the IESM. He is a member of the core group. And convenor for Gujrat.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Arun Saigal wrote:
Adm Nanda's funeral took place at Brar Square on 12 May. A wreath was laid by Kirit Joshipura ( thats the name I could read on his name tally) - small frame, specs, appx 5'3" , was wearing a cap. Do you know him ? Did he do so on behalf of IESM or IESL or himself. Adm Nanda's sons also could not place him
Rgds
Arun
I will convey it to the Nanda family
Regards
Arun
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 5:34 PM, Rakesh Prasad Chaturvedi
Kirit Joshipura represented the IESM. He is a member of the core group. And convenor for Gujrat.
On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Arun Saigal
Adm Nanda's funeral took place at Brar Square on 12 May. A wreath was laid by Kirit Joshipura ( thats the name I could read on his name tally) - small frame, specs, appx 5'3" , was wearing a cap. Do you know him ? Did he do so on behalf of IESM or IESL or himself. Adm Nanda's sons also could not place him
Rgds
Arun
Col Kirit Joshipura placed the wreath on behalf of IESM at Admiral SM Nanda's funeral on 12 May 2009
Dear All,
Wreath on behalf of the IESM was laid by our rep Col Kirit Joshipura the eldest Veteran of the IESM Core Group at Delhi on the funeral of the last of the 71 heroes "Veteran" Admiral SM Nanda Padma Vibhushan , PVSM , AVSM on 12 May 2009 at Brar Square.
IESM Veterans family deeply mourns the passing away of an era and prays for his soul to rest in peace.
A mail from Cdr Arun Saigal (retd) the nephew of Admiral SM Nanda acknowledging the same is placed below.
Regards
Cdr Sharan Ahuja (Retd)
Member Core Group
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Congress-AWOL-for long-exservicemen-stay-with-BJP
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cong-awol-for-long-exservicemen-stay-with-bjp/458910/0
Indian Express
New Delhi
14 May 2009
Cong AWOL for long, ex-servicemen stay with BJP
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Thursday , May 14, 2009 at 0148 hrs
New Delhi : As the last phase of polls approached, the Congress made a last ditch effort to woo ex-servicemen in Punjab, Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh — which have a sizeable chunk of this section of the electorate — assuring higher pension for retired personnel and announcing an increase in compensation for war casualties.
However, despite the last minute ‘decision’ to set up a committee for the One Rank One Pension (OROP) demand of retired soldiers, the large ex-servicemen community in these states is expected to vote in favour of the BJP, largely due to an influential organisation that started the countrywide protest against an ‘unfair deal’ in the Sixth Pay Commission.
The Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM), which mobilised thousands of soldiers to return their medals to the President as a form of protest earlier this year, is leaving no stone unturned to campaign for the BJP, which has included the touchy OROP issue in its manifesto.
“The only national party that has taken up the issue of the OROP is the BJP. That is why we have decided to support the cause. We are united in our demand for the same pension to all retirees,” says Lt Gen (retd) Raj Kadiyan, chairperson of the IESM.
This demand has emerged as the unifying factor for several ex-servicemen organisations that have come together under the IESM umbrella.
Incidentally, this is the first time ever in the history of the Armed Forces that an organised movement has declared its support for a political party. In the past, while smaller organisations would pledge support to a particular party, the community at large was perceived as being politically neutral.
From public meetings in Uttarakhand and Punjab by senior retired officers to mass e-mails, the IESM has managed, for the first time, to get the message through to ex-soldiers — to pledge ‘issue-based’ support to the BJP.
“We have been moving around meeting ex-servicemen in states across the country. We are telling former soldiers that a lot of wrong has been done to us in the Pay Commission and that our main demand for One Rank One Pension has only been taken up by the BJP,” says Lt Gen Kadiyan.
While public meetings and press statements are the preferred medium of reaching out to soldiers in villages, the movement is using the Internet extensively to remain in touch with retired officers and their families.
The movement even has a website (www.iesm.org) which is updated on a daily basis. Lt Gen Kadiyan also maintains a regular blog as well as a mailing list that is subscribed to by a large section of ex-servicemen.
But with military prudence, the movement is also distancing itself from any ideology by making it clear that it is offering “one-time support” to the BJP for its commitment to the OROP cause.“There is very strong suspicion that the Congress will never take up the matter. We do not support the ideology of the BJP but are giving it support only for the cause of ex-servicemen,” Kadiyan clarifies
Indian Express
New Delhi
14 May 2009
Cong AWOL for long, ex-servicemen stay with BJP
Manu Pubby
Posted online: Thursday , May 14, 2009 at 0148 hrs
New Delhi : As the last phase of polls approached, the Congress made a last ditch effort to woo ex-servicemen in Punjab, Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh — which have a sizeable chunk of this section of the electorate — assuring higher pension for retired personnel and announcing an increase in compensation for war casualties.
However, despite the last minute ‘decision’ to set up a committee for the One Rank One Pension (OROP) demand of retired soldiers, the large ex-servicemen community in these states is expected to vote in favour of the BJP, largely due to an influential organisation that started the countrywide protest against an ‘unfair deal’ in the Sixth Pay Commission.
The Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement (IESM), which mobilised thousands of soldiers to return their medals to the President as a form of protest earlier this year, is leaving no stone unturned to campaign for the BJP, which has included the touchy OROP issue in its manifesto.
“The only national party that has taken up the issue of the OROP is the BJP. That is why we have decided to support the cause. We are united in our demand for the same pension to all retirees,” says Lt Gen (retd) Raj Kadiyan, chairperson of the IESM.
This demand has emerged as the unifying factor for several ex-servicemen organisations that have come together under the IESM umbrella.
Incidentally, this is the first time ever in the history of the Armed Forces that an organised movement has declared its support for a political party. In the past, while smaller organisations would pledge support to a particular party, the community at large was perceived as being politically neutral.
From public meetings in Uttarakhand and Punjab by senior retired officers to mass e-mails, the IESM has managed, for the first time, to get the message through to ex-soldiers — to pledge ‘issue-based’ support to the BJP.
“We have been moving around meeting ex-servicemen in states across the country. We are telling former soldiers that a lot of wrong has been done to us in the Pay Commission and that our main demand for One Rank One Pension has only been taken up by the BJP,” says Lt Gen Kadiyan.
While public meetings and press statements are the preferred medium of reaching out to soldiers in villages, the movement is using the Internet extensively to remain in touch with retired officers and their families.
The movement even has a website (www.iesm.org) which is updated on a daily basis. Lt Gen Kadiyan also maintains a regular blog as well as a mailing list that is subscribed to by a large section of ex-servicemen.
But with military prudence, the movement is also distancing itself from any ideology by making it clear that it is offering “one-time support” to the BJP for its commitment to the OROP cause.“There is very strong suspicion that the Congress will never take up the matter. We do not support the ideology of the BJP but are giving it support only for the cause of ex-servicemen,” Kadiyan clarifies
IESM--Punjab - Volte face
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/IESM-volte-face-stirs-confusion-among-veterans/articleshow/4527363.cms
Times of India
Chandigarh
14 May 2009
IESM volte-face stirs confusion among veterans?
14 May 2009, 0432 hrs IST, Ajay Sura, TNN
CHANDIGARH: After announcing clear support to NDA ahead of polls, the office-bearers of Indian ex-servicemen movement (IESM), in an eleventh hour turnaround, decided to go with Congress, apparently following assurances given by Capt Amarinder Singh.
As a result, most ex-servicemen who had already made up their mind to vote for NDA, decided to go ahead with their personal choice, with no clear mandate for any party.
Incidentally, at a huge function organized recently in Chandigarh, IESM had announced the support in favour of NDA candidates. IESM had also taken back the nomination of their candidate, Brig (retd) Harwant Singh in favour of BJP nominee from Chandigarh, Satya Pal Jain.
While extending support to NDA candidates, representatives of IESM had stated that NDA’s PM candidate LK Advani had assured that their long-pending demand of one rank-one pension (OROP) would be accepted within 100 days if their party is voted to power.
But surprisingly, Lt Col Sohi, co-coordinator of IESM (Punjab chapter) along with other representatives announced support in favour Congress candidate in Mohali and made urged all IESM members at Chandigarh to vote for the Congress nominee.
Lt Col Sohi told TOI that they had decided to support the Congress candidates after Capt Amarinder assured that a special committee would be set up to consider their demand of OROP. “We are only bothered about our demand being fulfilled as Manmohan Singh is expected to become PM again, so we decided to support Congress candidates,” he added.
Pointing out that every political party promised to implement the OROP demand, but never did so when it came to power, Bhim Sen Sahgal, chairman All India ex-India ex-servicemen welfare association (regd.) said: “We asked the ex-servicemen to vote according to their conscious.’’
However, Brigadier Harwant Singh of IESM, said there are some defence personnel in tricity, who feel that Manmohan as Prime Minister can fulfil their demand of OROP.
Times of India
Chandigarh
14 May 2009
IESM volte-face stirs confusion among veterans?
14 May 2009, 0432 hrs IST, Ajay Sura, TNN
CHANDIGARH: After announcing clear support to NDA ahead of polls, the office-bearers of Indian ex-servicemen movement (IESM), in an eleventh hour turnaround, decided to go with Congress, apparently following assurances given by Capt Amarinder Singh.
As a result, most ex-servicemen who had already made up their mind to vote for NDA, decided to go ahead with their personal choice, with no clear mandate for any party.
Incidentally, at a huge function organized recently in Chandigarh, IESM had announced the support in favour of NDA candidates. IESM had also taken back the nomination of their candidate, Brig (retd) Harwant Singh in favour of BJP nominee from Chandigarh, Satya Pal Jain.
While extending support to NDA candidates, representatives of IESM had stated that NDA’s PM candidate LK Advani had assured that their long-pending demand of one rank-one pension (OROP) would be accepted within 100 days if their party is voted to power.
But surprisingly, Lt Col Sohi, co-coordinator of IESM (Punjab chapter) along with other representatives announced support in favour Congress candidate in Mohali and made urged all IESM members at Chandigarh to vote for the Congress nominee.
Lt Col Sohi told TOI that they had decided to support the Congress candidates after Capt Amarinder assured that a special committee would be set up to consider their demand of OROP. “We are only bothered about our demand being fulfilled as Manmohan Singh is expected to become PM again, so we decided to support Congress candidates,” he added.
Pointing out that every political party promised to implement the OROP demand, but never did so when it came to power, Bhim Sen Sahgal, chairman All India ex-India ex-servicemen welfare association (regd.) said: “We asked the ex-servicemen to vote according to their conscious.’’
However, Brigadier Harwant Singh of IESM, said there are some defence personnel in tricity, who feel that Manmohan as Prime Minister can fulfil their demand of OROP.
PunjabNewsLine...PBOR's in Lurch 12 May 2009 Patiala
PunjabNewsline
http://www.punjabnewsline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=16593&Itemid=99999999
Ex-servicemen demands to place Havildars in pay band PB 2
GAGANDEEP AHUJA
Tuesday, 12 May 2009
PATIALA: Indian Ex-Services League Punjab & Chandigarh, the oldest and a non-political body of ex-servicemen has asked the committee formed by Centre Govt. under the Chairmanship of Secretary (Ex-Servicemen Affair) S.M. Acharya to place Havildars and equivalent in pay-band, PB-2.
The league said that these non-commissioned officers form the real backbone of the Armed Forces and enjoy the same position as their counter parts, Lt. Cols. and equivalent, in the cadre of commissioned officers.
Sgt. Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal PLS Retd., President, Indian Ex-Services League, Punjab & Chandigarh said in a press release Tuesday that It was a pity that none of the senior officers, who spearheaded the demand of placing Lt. Cols. in PB-4, spoke even a single word when they found these senior non-commissioned officers having been placed in PB-1 along with class IV employees which caused a tremendous frustration among the PBORs. The league has, further stressed upon the committee to re-allocate Sub. Major to pay-band, PB-3 if it really intends to arrest the heart burning among the PBORs caused by the recommendations / implementation of Sixth Pay Commission, He added.
The League has reiterated its demand of raising minimum pension (applicable to reservist only) to Rs. 4600/= PM (Basic Pay 5200 + Gr.Pay 2000+ MSP 2000 divided by 2) on the same analogy as it has fixed Rs. 3500/= PM (Basic Pay 5200+Gr.Pay 1800 divided by 2) for the civilian employees Sixth Pay Commission has separated soldiers from civilian by granting MSP (Military Service Pay) to the former at the rate of Rs. 2000/= for PBORs and Rs. 6000/= for officers. As such, granting of Rs. 3500/= PM as minimum pension to service personnel is not justified by any stretch of law.
The League has further demanded a pension of Rs. 6000/=PM for Sepoy, Rs. 7000/= for Nk. Rs. 9000/= for Havildar Rs. 10,000/= PM for Nb. Sub. Rs. 11,000/= for Sub. and Rs. 13,000/=PM for Sub. Majors and equivalents till the committee is in a position to grant ONE RANK ONE PENSION to the soldiers.
League has sought the support of all likeminded organizations of ex-servicemen (both PBORs and officers) and also the senior officers in IESM if they sincerely wish to stand by the PBORs as many of them apparently claim to do so in this respect.
The league has reminded the committee that PBORs count for 96% of the total strength in the Armed forces and they have been crushed by the partial recommendation and faltered implementation of pay commission report. In the Armend Forces, Havildars and below, who retire before the age of 40 years, count for 85% where as J.C.O. form a chunk of 11% and the strength of officers is only 4%. A gross injustice has been done to middle ranking PBORs, Hav. and equivalent which needs to be corrected at the earliest.
In case nothing is done to assuage the feeling of PBORs, situation is likely to explode to an uncontrollable extent for which the govt. in power at the center will be, solely, held responsible.
IESL -Demystified.html
Dear all,
I have placed facets of IESL at http://reportmysignal.blogspot.com/2009/05/iesl-demystified.html
Very useful information for veterans who do not know about IESL, a premier ESM organisation- the only one recognised by MOD, linked to RESL, with a membership of 2.8 lakhs. This large organisation working incessantly for welfare of our Jawans is truly not known to many. If 2.8 lakh members are active it will certainly be a force to reckon with especially when honour, status and rank of Jawans have been degraded by successive Pay Commissions.
With regards,
--
James Kanagaraj
Report My Signal Blog Team
********************************************************************
1. Office Bearers
(i) Brig R K S Gulia: President (in Chair)
(ii) Col N L Verma: Sr Vice President
(iii) Col V K Singh: Vice President
(iv) Lt Col B S Ghumman: Vice President
(v) Col V P Singh: Hony Treasurer
2. Some modalities were also discussed and it was decided that the following Core Group would be constituted for the purpose:
(a) Maj Gen R N Radhakrishnan
(b) Brig Kartar Singh
(c) Col N L Verma
(d) Col Bhag Singh, VSM
3. The General Secretary read out the Annual Report of the League and significant issues like interior economy, fiscal control, chartered accountants audit, enhanced interaction with Power Corridors, financial assistance and action plans were amplified. Minutes of the 200th Executive Committee Meeting were also read out, along with the budget and the same was proposed by Lt Col Munshi Ram and seconded by Col Bhag Singh, VSM.
4. It was highlighted that whilst our membership had reached approx 2.8 lakhs (details statewise handed over to attendees) there was an urgent requirement of increasing the number of members, for which a concerted drive at State/Distt level was required.
5. The President apprised all members of the urgent and inescapable interior economy measures undertaken by us. For over four decades the complex had not been subjected to pest control measures resulting in gradual deterioration of its condition especially the wood work. An AMC for pest control to include termites, bugs, insects, cockroaches etc was undertaken and the tasks have been completed. Detailed market analysis was done and regular monitoring of the work was done by the Board of Officers constituted for the purpose. Some key projects undertaken during these renovations and repairs were improvement in the security of the complex by perimeter fencing, a new gate, signage, whitewashing/painting/varnishing, anti leakage/seepage measures, improvement in accommodation of the annexe, transit rooms, additional wash rooms, work stations etc. Expenditure details of the projects undertaken were also spent out. Passing of the expenditure was proposed by Col Bhag Singh, VSM and seconded by Hav S N Shahi.
6. General Secretary briefed the attendees on the establishment of the Pensioners Portal at our HQs under the ages of Ministry of Personnel, Pay and Grievances. This was a part of the E-Governance initiative of the Hon’ble Prime Minister and would prove to be a extremely beneficial for all pensioners. It was highlighted that due to our activities and our recognition by GOI that we had been earmarked for this prestigious project. Co-operation of all State Leagues was requested to make the scheme a success. Format for redressal of grievances and the requirements therein had been sent to all State Leagues and replies awaited. It was also decided that for all future members, subscribers for the Magazine and RCEL beneficiaries these inputs would be submitted alongwith application forms. The motion was proposed by Lt Col Munshi Ram and seconded by Cdr Inder Singh, VrC.
7. Giving a brief background on the subject, the President explained the necessity for incorporating essential amendments to the constitution. A Board of Officers headed by Brig K N Singh with experienced members like Brig Mohinder Singh, (Punjab) Brig Kartar Singh, (Rajasthan) Col R P Sarin, (Delhi) and Col Karan Singh, VSM (Legal Background) had been constituted in the earlier half of 2008 and had a series of meetings, after which they submitted the proceedings on 16 Sep 2008. All the 25 recommended amendments/deletions were explained in detail by the President and views of the House taken. Of these only 2 were pended for further consideration and the remaining 23 were approved. For details please refer to Appx attached wherein the details are given. These 23 amendments were unanimously approved for projection to the Governing Council for approval.
8. The President apprised the house of the requirement of constituting a “Wage Board” for the emoluments of the permanent staff of IESL. The last Wage Board had been constituted in 2004 with the recommendations applicable w.e.f 01 Jan 2005, and as a period of 5 years has elapsed revision was necessitated w.e.f 01 Jan 2010. The motion was unanimously accepted by the House.
9. The attendees were briefed on the visit of Col Paul Davis, CBE Secretary General RCEL alongwith Mrs Jessica Davis to us in Nov 2008. The visit was extremely successful and details of subsequent discussions by our management committee with him were also spelt out. In view of the global recession, there was likelihood of reduction in some grants, especially for major projects we were however, likely to have the RCEL Medical Grant resumed during the current year. There was a discussion on despatch of RCEL cheques through the respective State Leagues, but it was decided that status quo would be maintained and despatch of cheques to states leagues would only be resorted to for special occasions on the specific request of the State President. State Leagues would however, be informed about the number of beneficiaries in their respective States twice during the year (on distribution of the two installments of the grants). The Agenda was proposed by Col R P Sarin and seconded by Dfr Animesh Ghosh.
10. The meeting then adjourned for a presentation by Maj Gen A Shrivastava, MD ECHS wherein all the delegates and Governing Council members who were in location were also requested to attend. The session was conducted as under:
(a) Briefing on activities of our League, including activities throughout the country by Brig R K S Gulia, President.
(b) Presentation by MD ECHS including a Question Answer Session (QAS) with the attendees.
(c) Expression of our gratitude to the visiting officer and presentation of our memento as a token of our regard to him.
Detailed Report
MINUTES OF 201ST EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING OF IESL, HELD AT 1030 HOURS ON 26 MAR 2009 (THURSDAY) AT THE LEAGUE OFFICE, NEW DELHI. Manually updated Membership: 2.8 lakhs
IESL formed in 1965- 44 years ago
Comment: The most important audited report "financial statement" which is for public information as per Society Act of 1860 was not traceable in the minutes of the General Body Meeting.
I have placed facets of IESL at http://reportmysignal.blogspot.com/2009/05/iesl-demystified.html
Very useful information for veterans who do not know about IESL, a premier ESM organisation- the only one recognised by MOD, linked to RESL, with a membership of 2.8 lakhs. This large organisation working incessantly for welfare of our Jawans is truly not known to many. If 2.8 lakh members are active it will certainly be a force to reckon with especially when honour, status and rank of Jawans have been degraded by successive Pay Commissions.
With regards,
--
James Kanagaraj
Report My Signal Blog Team
********************************************************************
1. Office Bearers
(i) Brig R K S Gulia: President (in Chair)
(ii) Col N L Verma: Sr Vice President
(iii) Col V K Singh: Vice President
(iv) Lt Col B S Ghumman: Vice President
(v) Col V P Singh: Hony Treasurer
2. Some modalities were also discussed and it was decided that the following Core Group would be constituted for the purpose:
(a) Maj Gen R N Radhakrishnan
(b) Brig Kartar Singh
(c) Col N L Verma
(d) Col Bhag Singh, VSM
3. The General Secretary read out the Annual Report of the League and significant issues like interior economy, fiscal control, chartered accountants audit, enhanced interaction with Power Corridors, financial assistance and action plans were amplified. Minutes of the 200th Executive Committee Meeting were also read out, along with the budget and the same was proposed by Lt Col Munshi Ram and seconded by Col Bhag Singh, VSM.
4. It was highlighted that whilst our membership had reached approx 2.8 lakhs (details statewise handed over to attendees) there was an urgent requirement of increasing the number of members, for which a concerted drive at State/Distt level was required.
5. The President apprised all members of the urgent and inescapable interior economy measures undertaken by us. For over four decades the complex had not been subjected to pest control measures resulting in gradual deterioration of its condition especially the wood work. An AMC for pest control to include termites, bugs, insects, cockroaches etc was undertaken and the tasks have been completed. Detailed market analysis was done and regular monitoring of the work was done by the Board of Officers constituted for the purpose. Some key projects undertaken during these renovations and repairs were improvement in the security of the complex by perimeter fencing, a new gate, signage, whitewashing/painting/varnishing, anti leakage/seepage measures, improvement in accommodation of the annexe, transit rooms, additional wash rooms, work stations etc. Expenditure details of the projects undertaken were also spent out. Passing of the expenditure was proposed by Col Bhag Singh, VSM and seconded by Hav S N Shahi.
6. General Secretary briefed the attendees on the establishment of the Pensioners Portal at our HQs under the ages of Ministry of Personnel, Pay and Grievances. This was a part of the E-Governance initiative of the Hon’ble Prime Minister and would prove to be a extremely beneficial for all pensioners. It was highlighted that due to our activities and our recognition by GOI that we had been earmarked for this prestigious project. Co-operation of all State Leagues was requested to make the scheme a success. Format for redressal of grievances and the requirements therein had been sent to all State Leagues and replies awaited. It was also decided that for all future members, subscribers for the Magazine and RCEL beneficiaries these inputs would be submitted alongwith application forms. The motion was proposed by Lt Col Munshi Ram and seconded by Cdr Inder Singh, VrC.
7. Giving a brief background on the subject, the President explained the necessity for incorporating essential amendments to the constitution. A Board of Officers headed by Brig K N Singh with experienced members like Brig Mohinder Singh, (Punjab) Brig Kartar Singh, (Rajasthan) Col R P Sarin, (Delhi) and Col Karan Singh, VSM (Legal Background) had been constituted in the earlier half of 2008 and had a series of meetings, after which they submitted the proceedings on 16 Sep 2008. All the 25 recommended amendments/deletions were explained in detail by the President and views of the House taken. Of these only 2 were pended for further consideration and the remaining 23 were approved. For details please refer to Appx attached wherein the details are given. These 23 amendments were unanimously approved for projection to the Governing Council for approval.
8. The President apprised the house of the requirement of constituting a “Wage Board” for the emoluments of the permanent staff of IESL. The last Wage Board had been constituted in 2004 with the recommendations applicable w.e.f 01 Jan 2005, and as a period of 5 years has elapsed revision was necessitated w.e.f 01 Jan 2010. The motion was unanimously accepted by the House.
9. The attendees were briefed on the visit of Col Paul Davis, CBE Secretary General RCEL alongwith Mrs Jessica Davis to us in Nov 2008. The visit was extremely successful and details of subsequent discussions by our management committee with him were also spelt out. In view of the global recession, there was likelihood of reduction in some grants, especially for major projects we were however, likely to have the RCEL Medical Grant resumed during the current year. There was a discussion on despatch of RCEL cheques through the respective State Leagues, but it was decided that status quo would be maintained and despatch of cheques to states leagues would only be resorted to for special occasions on the specific request of the State President. State Leagues would however, be informed about the number of beneficiaries in their respective States twice during the year (on distribution of the two installments of the grants). The Agenda was proposed by Col R P Sarin and seconded by Dfr Animesh Ghosh.
10. The meeting then adjourned for a presentation by Maj Gen A Shrivastava, MD ECHS wherein all the delegates and Governing Council members who were in location were also requested to attend. The session was conducted as under:
(a) Briefing on activities of our League, including activities throughout the country by Brig R K S Gulia, President.
(b) Presentation by MD ECHS including a Question Answer Session (QAS) with the attendees.
(c) Expression of our gratitude to the visiting officer and presentation of our memento as a token of our regard to him.
Detailed Report
MINUTES OF 201ST EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEETING OF IESL, HELD AT 1030 HOURS ON 26 MAR 2009 (THURSDAY) AT THE LEAGUE OFFICE, NEW DELHI. Manually updated Membership: 2.8 lakhs
IESL formed in 1965- 44 years ago
Comment: The most important audited report "financial statement" which is for public information as per Society Act of 1860 was not traceable in the minutes of the General Body Meeting.
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